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Taco ESP Zone Valves
RonS
Member Posts: 10
what is going on with taco esp zone valves are thay ok or not and y cant we get them now
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Comments
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I wish
I knew what was up with them.I have been meaning to call Taco about it.
The new "03" heads were suppose to be 46% stronger than the previous ones,but I'm still seeing the same problems with them.We get an intermittent problem where as the valve doesn't completely shut off and the heating zone runs wild.We've been replacing the heads untill we find one that works.I'm getting pretty fed up with this and seriously considering useing something else.The problem is we have dozens of them out there already.I like Taco products and I like the ESP design, I just wish they would work.
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John and Ron
I had some problems a while ago with the taco ESPs. I switched to using the zone control panel with the built in isolation relays, all problems ended. I dont have the part number in front of me now, but it is the expandable ZCP. Made by Taco that made the differance for me. The problem I see in the future, is that the supply houses are still telling people that the cure is to add the resistor to the thermostat. I have told them that this is incorrect, but they wont believe me, they claim that this was the last word that they had from Taco, and untill they hear different, that is what they will tell people.
Chuck Shaw
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Well, Chuck
If you have to use the ZVCxxx-EXP relay in order for the
ESP valves to work, doncha think that kinda narrows the playing field for this valve's usefull application. My company discontinued stocking this valve for precisely that
reason. A zone valve, no matter how many good features, MUST work universally; or it just won't make it. I heard too many times from contractors: "I just want a zone valve
that works".
Jed0 -
Valid Point
I agree with your assesment. However, Taco also had other answers, such as not using a thermostat that allows trickle though voltage, and they also published the list of the thermostats that didnt work. Dont get me wrong, I understand what you are saying about the zone valve that should work universally. I also understand that the contractors "Just want a zone valve that works". In all fairness to Taco, They made things very right with me. They were very understanding of my concerns, and they pointed me in the right direction. And maybe they just want a contractor that can read directions, because I know I didnt.
Chuck
Chuck
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tstat compatibility
the new heads will not be stat sensitive or have the no/nc switch0 -
New Heads
Hopefully Taco will be sending out new valves with the new heads. I have installed 30 new heads just last week and they seem to work fine. I am using the Wirsbo tstat with the Wirsbo ZCM. Before this new head I was having big problems but Taco addressed the problems we were having and worked with us to fix it.
The new head does not have the NO / NC switch anymore.
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Follow up
Just to follow up on my post,ALL of the problem zone valves have been on very simple two and three zone baseboard systems with standard Taco non powered thermostats.
These problems have been going on since day one with the ESP heads and it's cost us alot of time and money to go back and correct.
If what John Jr says in his post is true and Taco has finally corected the problem I will be a happy guy.
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Taco
I use Taco products whenever I can; David Sweet, Mark Chaffee and everyone else at Taco put a lot of work into their products and have excellent product support. David Sweet was at Wetstock III showing off some of the new products they have and discussing ways to use them.
Nonetheless, the first ESP zone valves that we used were dismal failures. We tried everything; used the resistor to keep the capacitor charged, changed operators, changed valve bodies. We finally removed them and installed Danfoss zone valves which take longer to open, but they work.
In the meantime, Taco took care of us and compensated us for our trouble. We will continue to use their products.
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I want to make a couple of important points regarding the Taco ESP Zone Valve.
1. If ANYONE is still having ANY problems with the ESP Zone Valve you can call me directly at Taco. My phone number is 401-942-8000 x277 or e-mail me at marcha@taco-hvac.com. Our goal is to take care of any issues that are remaining in the field. Or if you feel more comfortable calling your local Taco representative you can get the same level of service from them.
2. We have released an updated version of the ESP Zone Valve. The latest version has a 2 at the end of the valve number (i.e. ESP075C2-2) or if it is a replacement head the number would be AN024Q4A-2
3. The latest ESP zone valve eliminates the need for a by-pass resistor, it is now quick opening.
4. The latest ESP is compatible with all thermostats. There is no longer a thermostat compatibility guide in the instruction sheet.
5. We did eliminate the Normally Open / Normally Closed switch because of the large number of installers who did not understand the difference or how changing the switch effected the valve. There were also a number of cases where it was switched accidentally, causing the valve to work improperly.
6. IMPORTANT: There are tens of thousands of ESP Zone Valves in the field that are not 2 versions that are wired properly, with compatible thermostats, that work just fine. Just because you have a 1 version does not mean that your valve does not work or will stop working in the future. There is no need to replace a properly working 1 valve. However, if any improper operation is occurring we want to address and correct it immediately (see #1)
7. Yes, the valves are available. However, there is still a significant backlog on orders.
Thank you for your continued use of Taco products. We at Taco strive every day to improve the industry, by providing you innovative, quality products and services. Your support and assistance in rectifying any product related field issues is invaluable to us as a manufacture. It is only with this collaboration that we can continually improve our products and in turn offer innovate solutions for your business.
Sincerely,
Mark Chaffee
Taco, Inc.
1160 Cranston Street
Cranston, RI 02920
401-942-8000
marcha@taco-hvac.com
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Taco Response on the Taco ESP
I want to make a couple of important points regarding the Taco ESP Zone Valve.
1. If ANYONE is still having ANY problems with the ESP Zone Valve you can call me directly at Taco. My phone number is 401-942-8000 x277 or e-mail me at marcha@taco-hvac.com. Our goal is to take care of any issues that are remaining in the field. Or if you feel more comfortable calling your local Taco representative you can get the same level of service from them.
2. We have released an updated version of the ESP Zone Valve. The latest version has a 2 at the end of the valve number (i.e. ESP075C2-2) or if it is a replacement head the number would be AN024Q4A-2
3. The latest ESP zone valve eliminates the need for a by-pass resistor, it is now quick opening.
4. The latest ESP is compatible with all thermostats. There is no longer a thermostat compatibility guide in the instruction sheet.
5. We did eliminate the Normally Open / Normally Closed switch because of the large number of installers who did not understand the difference or how changing the switch effected the valve. There were also a number of cases where it was switched accidentally, causing the valve to work improperly.
6. IMPORTANT: There are tens of thousands of ESP Zone Valves in the field that are not 2 versions that are wired properly, with compatible thermostats, that work just fine. Just because you have a 1 version does not mean that your valve does not work or will stop working in the future. There is no need to replace a properly working 1 valve. However, if any improper operation is occurring we want to address and correct it immediately (see #1)
7. Yes, the valves are available. However, there is still a significant backlog on orders.
Thank you for your continued use of Taco products. We at Taco strive every day to improve the industry, by providing you innovative, quality products and services. Your support and assistance in rectifying any product related field issues is invaluable to us as a manufacture. It is only with this collaboration that we can continually improve our products and in turn offer innovate solutions for your business.
Sincerely,
Mark Chaffee
Taco, Inc.
1160 Cranston Street
Cranston, RI 02920
401-942-8000
marcha@taco-hvac.com
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Taco
Mark,Thanks for addressing the problem here,I will be giving you a call ASAP.
Is it possible to explain what the problem has been with the ESP heads?It seems so random.Most of them work just fine but one in 6 or 8 doesn't.
The problem that I've been seeing hasn't been opening,but closeing,or are they getting stuck halfway open and just not closeing?
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Is it the head or
the body. I put one in my own house, It was the first generation I am told. It oveheats now and again even after the the head was change, T-87 with the resistor installked.
Thats a sad commentary that "We did eliminate the Normally Open / Normally Closed switch because of the large number of installers who did not understand the difference or how changing the switch effected the valve."
Thanks for your input0 -
It is the head not the body!0 -
Sad Commentary
Is that EVER the truth!!!
That alone may speak volumes for why hydronics seem to have only about 4% of the U.S. residential market!
Call me naive but I kind of thought:
1) Trade schools were there to train the suitably inclined and GUIDE them towards a trade best suited to their personal abilities.
2) Unions and traditional apprentesing programs were there to protect the worker from genuine abuse by the employer while ensuring the employer that he was receiving the most competent and able workers.
With a lack of understanding of such a simple concept being so common that a nationally distributed manufacturer has to change production, you simply cannot convince me that either of the above are doing the jobs that many besides me would agree embody their true purpose.
AAAKKK! What on earth is this great country of ours coming to?
Oh wait. When I wake up tomorrow and read the news I'll probably find that "The Terminator" is now the governor of California. A while back I heard (SERIOUSLY) that he was trying to get himself cast as the lead role in a musical [operatic I believe]. He wasn't told, "Not with that accent", but, "You can't sing!" You CA people better hope he doesn't have the same delusions regarding politics!0 -
RE: Sad Commentary
ever wonder where the politicians go to get trained?0 -
That would be...
...either law school or CLOSED corporate boardrooms depending on which direction my cynicism is running at the time...0 -
What about noise? I have had complaints from customers that the actuator (head) is noisy. I have to agree, I have them at home on my system, and can hear them moving from two rooms away, with the TV on. Would changing to the new heads be quieter? Thanks, Luke0 -
ESP Gear Sound
The noise you hear is because the ESP is a gear driven valve. There will always be an associated noise from the interaction of the gears. The noise of the latest actuator is less than some of the first ones in the field, but it will never be silent like the 570 heat motor zone valve. On the plus side, since it is a ball valve design you do eliminate the slamming sound when the valve closes.
Mark Chaffee
Taco, Inc.0 -
Taco
Just got off the phone with Mark from Taco and my replacement heads will be in the mail very soon.
Hows that for customer support,Thanks Mark.
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JUNK
sorry but that is all i can say...rather deal with the old tacos. prefer honeywell or erie...nothin but trouble0 -
Junk?
I have found that when people don't understand something or fail to READ THE DIRECTIONS and the product doesn't work like it should they blame the product. Then they are afraid to ask for help. I have over 250 to 300 of these ESP zone valves installed and yes I did have problems with the first phase of heads with the Wirsbo Thermostats. What I did was to call Wirsbo and Taco and get involved to let them know that there was a problem. What Taco did was come to a job site with three of their engineers and we wired all kinds of thermostats up and they took all kinds of voltage readings to find the problem and they showed me a couple of thermostats that worked fine with the ESPs. But because all I do is Radiant Heat and use Wirsbo I wanted the Wirsbo Thermostats. The customers that I switched to the thermostats that worked wanted the Wirsbo ones back. So Wirsbo got involved with Taco to fix the problem. At this time I am still installing ESP valves and using Wirsbo thermostats with no problems now that I have replaced the heads with the new ones.
TACO stands behind there product and you will find that MOST will when they know there is a problem.
If you have a problem with these valves call Mark his number is above in this post he is a nice guy.
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sorry john jr
didnt want to offend anyone.. just been in the business a long time and get a little tired of the manufacturers sending out products that were not truly tested under all circumstances. its great that they work with us to figure out the problems but not all customers are happy to have these problems worked on at their homes or businesses. i just feel that any manufacturer shouldwork on all these issues prior to releasing a new product. the lab is a hell of alot differant than the feild. yes many products come off with out a glitch...but when they dont it is a problem. ie: blue ray boilers, when weil mclain gold oil boilers first came out, early grundfos circs, etc. so just so you know my "junk" word is or should be followed by "at this time". i do admit the principle is great..easy to change the heads, nice plug ins for the wires etc. did read the instructions..
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Paul, I get kind of fired up sometimes with guys out there in our field because they spend more on advertising and trying to get new customers instead of spending some money on education and trying to stay with the times. I find that mostly all the guys here try to learn new ways and new things which is why I like it here and LOVE going to Wetstock I and III to talk to the guys that really care about the profession.
Sorry I got fired up please dont take it personally.
I do understand how you feel about products being tested in the lab. That is way I told Taco to come to the job site and play with it. They couldnt believe that I would actually allow them to come out to the job site and play with the system. When they walked in I told them here it is you own. I feel the fix came a lot faster for us with doing that.
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