Water feeder keeps cycling

Scott26

I bought my home last year and the one pipe steam system seemed to function pretty good.

I decided this year however, that I needed to get the crap out of the boiler since the drain sillcock at the bottom of the unit when opened, did nothing.

I removed this valve and poked a small tool in there and WHAMMO the sludge started to pour out, followed by the water. It seemed pretty dirty, so I decided to let it all out. I cleaned the sight glass and put it all back together. I let the water feeder fill the boiler back up. The sucker fired and I tought all was fine.

Until I kept hearing the water feeder going while I was up stairs. I went down and removed the extra water (back to half way up the glass) and tried again. The water feeder turned on, added a buch of water and then stopped. But after a minute or so, it did it again, and again.

I also tried to close the bottom valve on the sight glass, open the top and remove the little stopper at the bottom, to maybe let extra air out (I know that doesnt make sense for a steam system) but that didnt help either.

What did I do wrong ? (besides trying to do it myself)

Thanks !

Al Letellier

HAUNTED WATER FEEDER

Scott, it depends on what type of feeder you have and where the water line is in relation to the cut-off level. You could be running the water level too close to the cut-off point and it could be cycling off the float. An electronic feeder may have a board problem, etc. There are many variable with too little info to answer your question any way but to say what gets said here a lot...hire a pro to look at it!

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Steamhead

I agree with Al

You did the right thing by getting the sludge out of the boiler, but maybe the problem was worse than you thought. Time to hire a pro. Try the Find a Contractor page of this site. If you're near Baltimore, e-mail me!

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Unknown

What most people don't realize

is that an auto feeder on a steam boiler is an emergency type device. The water level is to be maintained at a water level above the feeder fill level.

When a boiler starts, the water is ALWAYS pushed out of the boiler and up the returns to maintain the water in the "A" dimension on 1-pipers, and to the "B" dimension in 2 pipers.

If you maintain the boiler water level at the feeder water level, the boiler is going to go on and off and on and off and on and on and on..... until enough water is in there to minimaly float the LWCO while the boiler makes steam. Then if a wee bit of steam puffs out a vent or valve packing, off you go on low water again.

It's a steam system, for goodness sakes. It was designed before electricity was in the house. It needed tending every few hours. It's still the same system, with a new boiler on it. Give it two minutes a week, for crying out loud, and keep enough water in it so that it doesen't trip the low water cut off.

If you want a boiler you can ignore, take out the steam.

No, don't do that. Too many people already doing that. Don't take out the steam. Maintain it.

Noel

Mad Dog

Amen Sir Noel!!!!!

man....you goin off!!!!!!!!! good to see that onc ein a while MD

Mad Dog

Amen Sir Noel!!!!!

man....you goin off!!!!!!!!! good to see that onc ein a while MD

Mad Dog

Amen Sir Noel!!!!!

> is that an auto feeder on a steam boiler is an

> emergency type device. The water level is to be

> maintained at a water level above the feeder fill

> level.

>

> When a boiler starts, the water is

> ALWAYS pushed out of the boiler and up the

> returns to maintain the water in the "A"

> dimension on 1-pipers, and to the "B" dimension

> in 2 pipers.

>

> If you maintain the boiler water

> level at the feeder water level, the boiler is

> going to go on and off and on and off and on and

> on and on..... until enough water is in there to

> minimaly float the LWCO while the boiler makes

> steam. Then if a wee bit of steam puffs out a

> vent or valve packing, off you go on low water

> again.

>

> It's a steam system, for goodness

> sakes. It was designed before electricity was in

> the house. It needed tending every few hours.

> It's still the same system, with a new boiler on

> it. Give it two minutes a week, for crying out

> loud, and keep enough water in it so that it

> doesen't trip the low water cut off.

>

> If you

> want a boiler you can ignore, take out the

> steam.

>

> No, don't do that. Too many people

> already doing that. Don't take out the steam.

> Maintain it.

>

> Noel



man....you goin off!!!!!!!!! good to see that onc ein a while MD

Scott26

more Info

So when the feeder cycled on, the probe type cut off on the boiler was not lit, indicating that no water was needed. The feeder kept cycling over and over and over. I must have taken a few gallons of water out before air appeared in the glass again. I was just worried about flooding the pipes and causing even more headaches.

Unknown

what signals the feeder?

do you have more than one water level control?

Noel

Scott26

I do not think so. The LWCO is attached to the boiler and a wire goes from that to the ITT water feeder. The water feeder has a manual feed button (which I guess could be stuck - although I have played with it)

Operating level according to the manual and last years operation seemed to be about 3/4 of the way up the glass.

Unknown

It still has the symptoms of a boiler with the waterline being maintained too close to the only water level control.

With a single control, it has no way of maintaining a proper water level, and at the same level, shut the boiler off.

Put enough water in it so that it stays above the probe when it is running.

The low, wet returns aren't plugged up, are they?

Noel

Scott26

Don't think so, it is the first run of the season.
My only thoughts on that is that this is before the boiler is firing.
The thermostat has been turned down far enough so the boiler will not fire.

So, so steam is being produced and no water is leaving the system.

Unknown

The feeder gets it's voltage through the LWCO

That would be where the problem is, if you hear it opening, and it is wired correctly.

You're sure it is while it is off, and not leftover from the last time it ran? Plugged returns will hold water back while it is running and allow it to creep back after the boiler shuts off, flooding it.



Noel

Scott26

I'm confused what this means...

I realize the literal meaning that the voltage to run the water feeder comes through the LWCO, but does this mean that the uni-match water feeder is faulty ?

Unknown

I don't believe so

I believe that it only opens when the LWCO feeds it voltage.

Either we haven't caught it when it is feeding to observe the water line....

Or it feeds when nothing is happening to a level way above the LWCO and then shutting off(doubtful),

Or the returns are plugged

or something we haven't thought of yet.

Noel

Unknown

I just looked up that control

Is it a WF-2-U-120? It has a field adjustable rate inside, and since it is a 3 wire control, it could fail and feed with a good LWCO not sending a signal.

You need to observe the symptoms of when it feeds and where the water line is when it opens.

Noel

Scott26

I had the wife take a look at home, and it is a wf-2u-24

It has 3 wires going to it, but only 2 are hooked up (white and red) the green is coiled up.

Unknown

that one is a 3 wire feeder, too

2 & 3 are constant 24 vac power, and 3 is the signal from the LWCO, also 24 vac.

Check your wiring against the schematic.

http://www.mcdonnellmiller.com/pdf/install_instr/MM-303E.pdf

Noel

Scott26

So, I am home now... I hooked a volt meter up to the water feeder. It is getting 24 (26 really) volts on the 2/3 wires constantly.
The light on the LWCO was on for a bit (becuase I drained the tank a little) and then shut off and still supplied voltage to the feeder. I took that all apart and found a small ammount of water on the part of the probe where the wire hooks on.
Does this indicate a bad probe ?
How about a bad LWCO (hydrolevel safgard 24)

I am going over schematics now...

Unknown

this is good, so far

What's on terminal 1?

Which Hydrolevel control?

jose

I have encountered

this problem and on several occasions i've removed the LOW WATER CUT-OFF probe (drain boiler of course), and found alittle sediment build up on it.
This sediment causes the water not to make or close the circuit so that it tells the feeder that the boiler needs water.
So I took alittle open mesh paper and clean the probe off, rinse and reinstall.

Paul Mitchell

sounds like a 47-2 or 67 lwco

honestly it could be that you just have a bad lwco and the float is shot. if you neglected it that long then it is time to replce before you have a system or house full of water or worse a boiler running with no water.

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Scott26

Problem SOLVED

I first tried to replace the probe, its o-rings were bad anyway. Still no luck.

I finally decided it was time to spend some cash and got a new Hydrolevel 400 LWCO.

That did the trick. The old hydrolevel was pretty old and I am betting that the main relay went.

So I am heating now and all looks good.

Except that I may be short cycling...

Will have to see what happens when the system get totaly wet again.


Thanks for all the help !

frank_14

water feeder

1st thing first, you shouldnt have a manuel reset lwco when using a water feeder, need an automic reset lwco! next check probe , if any sediment just change control, next hire a prof to examine whole system. dont always look at the obvious and fault the feeder its just doing what its told

bob carey -midland,mich.

LWCO cycling

not mentioned was the condition of the water in the sight glass. is it bouncing hard and rapidly? boiler water may be still dirty and causing problems. if boiler water was that dirty,it wouldn't take long to coat up the rod. good luck bob