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v8 boiler piping

Matt_8 Member Posts: 10
A friend of mine is having a burnham v8 boiler installed by a local contractor. I stopped over the other night to look at it and I noticed that they have the return pipe going right up in front of the right bolt on the swing out firebox/burner door. You cannot open the door. I showed my friend and he asked them the next day about it. They said that if you need access just take the bolts out of the right and the left and take the door/burner assembly off. Is this normally how its done? Why would the door have a hinge?
I also saw that they have the circulators on the return and the flochecks on the supply. Everything I've seen suggests to put the ciculators on the supply after the air scoop/bladder tank. The house is a large and very old stone structure (I would guess about 2200 s.f.), newer windows but little or no insulation. They have 1 , 3/4" zone to the upstairs to a heat exchanger in a duct. They have 2, 3/4" zones to the downstairs cast iron radiators. The boiler is 140000 output with a tankless coil. I didn't do a heat loss calc. for the house but I assume the contractor did. It just seems like that boiler is going to be CHUGGING away this winter in that big old stone farmhouse. Just some thoughts I had.


  • Matt_8
    Matt_8 Member Posts: 10
    by the way

    the contractor is installing the whole system , not just the boiler. Up till now the house (basically the first floor) has been heated by a wood stove.
  • The V8 comes with a double swing door

    just for this situation . You unscrew the 2 bolts and pull on the left side of the door and it will actually fold back to swing it all past the return pipe . But if the installer went with a real short nipple on the return , getting that bolt out will be a pain . Recently , Burnham has been shipping a stud and nut for the right side , instead of the long bolt that is hard to align again at times . We always pipe the return to the right of the burner door regardless - just to keep the boiler drain away from the burner and for some added space to swing the door - just in case .

    If there is alot of cast iron rads and a large volume of boiler water for the system , I would suggest installing a system bypass ( did I get that right ? ) , to blend hot water with the cold return water coming back from the system . Continual cold return water could destroy a cast iron boiler over time .
  • Matt_8
    Matt_8 Member Posts: 10

    I didn't know that the door double hinged. They have an 1 1/2 black pipe 90 with a close nipple headed right past the stud/nut combo on the return. It is about 3/4" away.
    There is no bypass between supply and return at all. I saw on your picture that you have the pumps on the supply (pumping away). They have the pumps on the return pumping into the boiler and they have the flow checks mounted on the supply. They have the scoop/bladder on the supply just before the flochecks. This will still work it just wont be as efficient? right?
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,718
    The water will move with that setup

    but the system will probably have air problems. The circulators belong between the scoop/compression tank ("bladder") and the flochecks, pumping away from the scoop toward the flochecks.

    For an excellent plain-English explanation on why this works so well, get Dan's book "Pumping Away", available on the Books and More page of this site.

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
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    Oil & Gas Burner Service
  • That is a \"boiler bypass\" Ron

    An easy way to remember this is that the system return water is bypassing the boiler by going across the bypass to itself. Nice install Ron! How did you end up working in a space that big? That's not one of your normal situations! By the way, I was in Tullytown, PA Tuesday night with your sister company there. They knew you!

  • The majority of systems i work on

    are piped with pumps on the return. I don't see many performance problems.Once in a great while I have to purge a sytem. Lots of them have cartidge circulator that are 15 - 20 years old. They can't stand air!! They are holding up.

    That being said i wouldn't do it that way. You get one chance to make it an excellant job. Pump away!
  • John@Reliable_4
    John@Reliable_4 Member Posts: 101
    Glenn, can you pass this on.........................

    Why can't they make the whip on the cir. pump about 12" longer on a package V8? We all know pumping away is the way to go but you must change factory set-up cause it's to short.Hell I will even pay the extra .35 cents! P.S. thanks for changing the right side bolt. Thanks John@Reliable
  • Longer Wire

    Hi John,

    This has been requested in the past, but it probably will not happen.
    The two reasons for this are as follows.

    First, we took the pump off the oil boilers almost 6 years ago for just
    this purpose and at that time did extend the wire. There was a
    quite a bit of feedback from the larger oil dealers in the country
    to put it back on the boiler due to the time required to mount it
    in the field. This is why the pump went back on the oil boilers.

    Second, if the wire were a foot or so longer, there would be too long a
    loop of wire for those that choose not to pump away that would either
    have to drape over or under the burner tube or it would have to be
    looped and secured with a tie wrap.

    The new pre-wired burner plug, Clean Cut pump, R7184 relay, reset button
    extension in burner cover, cover removal knobs, better gauge, boiler
    drain and notched door with stud were all input from the field that we
    responded to. We appreciate all of the input we recieve and try to
    respond with the best of ability. Thanks for your kind comments here and
    on other web sites. You are a true friend of Burnham!

  • Thanks Glenn

    for the explanation and the compliment . Actually , I don't remember that job , it was the 1st pic I could find that showed how we pipe the return . And also - that air elimination setup we came up with - the 1 1/4 tee with a 5 inch nipple , bell coupling and air can - has been working like a charm . It's a good substitute for places where theres no room for an airscoop - which is definitely most of out jobs .

    Hey , how do the guys in Tullytown know me ? Do any of them post here on this site ? I'd like to say hi to em .

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