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excessive lpg usage

Gerry
Gerry Member Posts: 5
last install using w-m gold on lpg with gold idhw, staple-up pex, in concrete pex, p/s piping, three zone pumps, using 3/4 crossover between 1-1/4 primary loop with floor loops off of crossover using closely spaced tees, using manual ball valves to mix sup/ret for temp reduction, also off of primary is 1" to idhw using closely spaced tees, idhw loop is first on primary loop to get priority without cost of controls, if fact whole job piped this way to get low cost by avoiding controls and mixing valves. Problem...this install has excessive gas usage even over summer with just idhw they used 500 gals lpg. Can piping be the culprit?

Comments

  • AKO
    AKO Member Posts: 34
    more info available?

    Would need to know more about capacities, square footage, usage of dhw and setpoints to even have a shot at offering an opinion. And do you know how much fuel (electric, oil or other) they used during the same time period before your install?
  • AKO
    AKO Member Posts: 34
    more info available?

    Would need to know more about capacities, square footage, usage of dhw and setpoints to even have a shot at offering an opinion. And do you know how much fuel (electric, oil or other) they used during the same time period before your install?

    Are you getting unwanted flow through heating loops during summer?
  • Floyd_5
    Floyd_5 Member Posts: 418
    when you say ....

    W-M Gold do you mean a GV???? If so, then they already are piped for boiler protection with two variable speed pumps internal in the boiler.

    Can you post a pic. or two of the piping. How many people in the house???? Are there check valves on the zones??? Check valve on the DHW loop??? Is there an underground or regulator gas leak????

    Grab a hold of every pipe while that thing is making hot water and see where all the heat is going....do they have a hot water leak in a crawl space with a dirt floor and the water is just running away????

    Tough to give an exact anwser with the info provided...but I sure got a ton of ????'s

    Floyd
  • Look for an LP leak.

    > Would need to know more about capacities, square

    > footage, usage of dhw and setpoints to even have

    > a shot at offering an opinion. And do you know

    > how much fuel (electric, oil or other) they used

    > during the same time period before your

    > install?

    >

    > Are you getting unwanted flow through

    > heating loops during summer?



  • Look for an LP leak.

    It won't be big, if there is one. That's a lot of gas in a month of summer.

    Noel
  • noel's right

    check for the gas leak. i heard of one locally that had 14 staples through the new flexible gas lines. that's a very dangerous situation. bob
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  • kf_2
    kf_2 Member Posts: 118
    all of the above are things to check

    maybe also, is there a DHW recirc line. If so does it run constantly and/or is it possibly a long run of uninsulated piping giving up it's heat to the surrounding area and dropping the tank temperature.


    kf
  • Gerry
    Gerry Member Posts: 5


    yes, gv-4, i was not looking for boiler protect but reducing water temp for pex floor heat while keeping temp up for idhw,(40gal), and 1600 cfm water coil.

    i can paint of word picture of piping, a primary loops from supply to return in a 2'x 4' rectangle, 1-1/4". first off of the loop is a 3/4" line to fan coil, return goes to return to boiler, no check, ball'd off in summer because it does migrate. next on the loop is the closely spaced tees for sup/ret on idhw, 1" lines, 1" spring check. next i took a 3/4" bridge between primary loop top and bottom and off of that line closely spaced sup/ret tees to pex zone on upper floor staple up and then another bridge between primary loop top and bottom for basement concrete zone.

    each zone uses an armstrong as30 pump, no checks, into four loops of approx. 300' each, basically a 12" oc for a 1200sq' main level and 1200sq' basement.

    lp gas company has been checking for leaks and maintains no leak, but that is my next step to satisfy myself.

    this was a new piping arrangement for me, i got it out of holohans book on radiant piping and this job required a low cost approach. all my mixing is done with ball valves strategically placed. my other radiant jobs have been ok using p/s but this bridge approach was new to me & has made me curious, seemed to work good on adjusting temps of loops though, but a ton of ???s myself. thanks for listening and questioning. gerry
  • Gerry
    Gerry Member Posts: 5


    good thought but no recirc line, i used a pex manifold system for domestic water centrally located so runs are short but the pex is uninsulated. gerry
  • Gerry
    Gerry Member Posts: 5


    this was new construction, two adults, one newborn, claim low-moderate water usage,
    40 gal w-m gold idhw set at their t-stat starting point, about 140f, heated by a w-m gv-4
    2 pex radiant zones 1 manifold per zone 4 loops of approx 300' per manifold basically 12" oc 1200sq' main floor staple up and 1200sq' concrete floor in basement.
    1 idhw zone and 1 water coil zone used during mild temps
    there was migration on water coil just ball'd off for summer
    pex lines seemed ok thanks for helping gerry
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,813
    Could you

    have a leak in the radiant tubing? Does the boiler have an auto fill? Turn it off and watch the pressure for a day.

    Ghost flow through a concrete slab can really run up the fuel consumption without you noticing any heat output.

    Sounds like some more bucket time in front of the boiler with an infrared temperature gun would help.

    An hour meter on the boiler is another inexpensive way to "watch" the system without being there.

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Gerry
    Gerry Member Posts: 5


    ghost flow in concrete, good idea, thanks i'll be checking your suggestions out, gerry
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
    Control??

    What's controlling the loop temps?? A Tekmar control, or is the boiler limit the only control??

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