Insurance question

Steve Ebels

I just got a questionaire from my insurance company wanting to know if I serviced LP gas furnaces and if so how many and what exactly did I do to them. Called my agent and he said basically to lie, in a sort of round-about, maybe, kinda way. He told me there are huge premium increases coming for anyone who services LP equipment and to hang on to my hat as far as price increases go. From what he said, plan on at least double the liability cost if you handle or service LP within the next 2 years. Any one else have this pop up on their radar??

Bill_14

Think about it...

Will your insurance guy stick by you when you have a claim against you because of his suggestion to lie? Be careful with this kind of advice Steve...your guy knows better than that I'll bet.

Bill

Mark Hunt

WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO


The FIRST question my insurance agent asked me is if I worked on Propane. HUGE liability there.

Biggest issue was whether or not I installed LP gas, not LP gas burning systems.

We do not install the gas of course, and that is how I eluded the issue.

Be careful.

Mark H

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Jim_19

Are you crazy?

Sorry to be so crude, but are you crazy? On the day when something has gone wrong (and those days do happen) do you want your insurance company standing with you or against you? The verbal shenanigans of your agent will be completely disavowed by your insurance company. You've paid premiums for X years, make sure the coverage is going to be there when you need it.

Your agent is a fool (and in violation of his license) for even suggesting something like this. He is not protecting you from a rate increase, he is protecting his current commission at the expense of your protection and peace of mind. Get rid of him.

You want to state clearly and precisely to the company what you do. If you don't like their new rate, shop it around and see if anyone else has better rates for the same coverage. If they are all in the same ballpark, you need to make a business decision - can I perform that service and charge a price high enough to cover my liability insurance and still make a profit? If you can't (or won't), stop doing that service.

Al Letellier

insurance

Steve, we hit this question every year we review our insurance with our agent. Your guy is really heading you down the wrong road. Most carriers will cover P&H work in the propane arena up to 10% of your annual volume of sales. You will get auditted and may have to prove your actual sales in Propane. It's up to you how good your record keeping is, but honesty is truly the best policy. Don't let a lawyer get hold of your records in a lawsuit. Check with your current carrier and watch your sales. When you hit the limit, you have two choices.....stop accepting the work or pay the added premium. Good luck!

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Bill_14

AMEN !! (nm)

Firedragon_3

The guys is a loser and a fraud!

Dump him, dump him, dump him! Every one else is right and he should be reported to the Insurance Commissioner in your state. I can't believe he would do that, is he also an ambulance chasing attorney????

My agent and lawyer would eat this guy up, FACT!

[Deleted User]

LP

I just got my new policy and the first exclusion was that I was not covered to do any LP work. Lets see I live in Big Sur calif and all we have is LP or electric, very little oil. What is the big deal with LP? All my work is LP and I am just a little guy. OK now what? Want to talk about bad insurance agents? no les not go there, mike

hot_rod

Do you

service and or install LP. Then pay the premium! It's a legitimate cost of doing business. And a wise one I must say.

Also by posting that question here it is now on many, many computers with your IP attached.

Exactly what got, of all people, Bill Gates in trouble with the feds. He forgot the systems HE developed hung onto his e-mails regarding his competitors! Ouch:) Becareful, this is a sticky wicket.

Find an ethicial insurance dude.

hot rod

Mike T., Swampeast MO

A propane liability links

http://www.federatedrural.com/propaneriskmanagement.htm

Looks like a growth industry for personal injury lawyers. Unlike natural gas providers whose liability generally ends at the meter, propane suppliers are being held responsible for entire systems--and even stupidity of others.

This opens the bag for ANYONE who did or supplied ANYTHING to the system to be held partly liable.

It doesn't appear that anyone believes propane to be more inherently dangerous or the installation of propane equipment more difficult than natural gas--it just seems that the chain of liability is different. The insurers of the propane suppliers will do EVERYTHING in their power to blame others and juries often seem to agree.

steve gates

yup


Had to change ins co just a few months ago cause the

wouldn't cover lp. 80% of my jobs have lp.

Have a friend in the propane biz that replaced a new boiler recently when ofall things the tank ran out, they went and filled it and while doing the paper work he saw the garage on fire.

GO ahead guess... It was a temporary hookup that got disconected but not capped by the contractor. He had connected a 100# bottle...

Lucky for him(ha ha)only the silver paint,wire and other boiler stuff was ruined.

Yes he paid for the new boiler.

B. Tice

LP insurance

I think there was a dicussion about this a couple years back. My policy has 2 exclusions, Lp and Nuculear plant work! (gotta go fix a leak at the local reactor) I was told about 85% of all heating "occurences" (fires, F.D. called out, etc.) that happen in US are propane related. It's DEFINATELY the most dangerous fuel to use, and like a couple of the other Guys said, there is no utility company behind it, taking resp. for the lines, etc....anyway, nat. gas is much safer anyway. So, it's pay up or don't mess with it.

Steve Ebels

The question is NOT whether to pay up

It's where to get insurance. His company (Nationwide Ins.) has told him they will not write insurance for LP gas. PERIOD!! Not for any price. What companies are you guys insured through??? I have been calling around to many different agents and I've gotten the same story everywhere. " Sorry, we don't cover any LP related businesses." Even when I tell them I just install heating equipment and have nothing to do with the tanks or delivery of gas the story is the same. Give me the name of a company.

steve gates

so I'm thinking

that we put a disclaimer in our contracts. Something like, we can not be held responsible for any damages ect. due to the unavailablilty ins.

Yea right

Bill_14

I checked

with our insurance agent. We are covered for work on propane gas systems & equipment through our general liability policy. The carrier is CNA. Other carriers that will allow this coverage are Mid-Continent, Ranger & Ohio Casualty...there are probably others.

The kicker is that if your business with propane installations starts getting into the 20% to 30% of your sales, then you start getting hammered with the propane business policy and your other liabilty coverage is excluded for propane service work.

In our case, we do less than 1% propane work if that much. In addition, I was told that some regions of the country are more flexible with various risks within the same insurance company. In other words, the midwest may be more tolerant than the east, etc. with CNA as the carrier.

Hope this helps you, but hope you are able to let this agent know that truthful information is all that should be expected.

Bill