Water Supply sizing

Jon_2

Need a source for sizing a water supply main for a hunting clubhouse that will have 5 sets of sleeping quarters for 4 men each. Each sleeping quarter will have a shower, water closet, lavatory, 40 gal. electric water htr., and a kitchen with sink. Water main is located appox. 940 ft from the building and is at 55 psi. Would like to use 100 psi plastic tubing for the run as it is available in a 1000 ft. coil. Building will be used for only 2 weeks in the fall of each year for the start of duck season on the St. Law. River in Northern NY.

Al Letellier

plumbing supply size

For a camp like that I wouldn't worry too much but to get accurate sizing charts, ask your local plumber or plumbing inspector. All codes have sizing charts in them and codes vary from state to state. Your local code is the best source for this info.

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Jackchips

For that length

of pipe you have to be carefull not to undersize the main. There will be a lot of friction loss that has to be added to the elevation change before you enter the building. Some of todays toilets require up to 20 psi to operate properly and my sizing chart shows a 1" line with a minimum of 10 foot elevation change would leave only approximately 22 psi to operate all the fixtures. You could have problems.

I would recommend a minimum 11/2" line which would only lose between 15 and 16 psi in the 940 foot run. This would leave you 39 psi less 1/2 psi per foot of elevation between the main and the floor the fixtures are on to operate all the fixtures.

Jon_2

Water Supply sizing

Already talked to the code enforcement officer, who is a political hack. He does not know, nor care. Remember this ia rural area. All I would like to know is where I could find the sizing charts. And by the way, when twenty guys are taking showers there best be enough water pressure available. I would worry a lot if I had 20 guys P.O. at me that had shotguns available with no water pressure.

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Need more information

Before you go to the sizing tables, you will need to know:

1) What kind of toilets are they: 1.5 gal., 3 gal., flushometer?

2) What size main are you tapping into?

3) Elevation difference between the main and the fixture location.

I don't know where you can find sizing tables online. Where ever you go, make sure they are reliable.

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murph'_3

whatever you do.....

don't drop the soap !! with that said i would not be putting in 100psi plastic pipe (all you will probaly save is maybe 20-30 usdollars on the cost of the pipe) if you will bury this pipe, not much savings over the cost of the job itself, if like alan says if it rises n elevation you will probaly lose pressure, if it falls you might pick up a little!!might even need a booster pump to help in that area,and bladder tanks to keep the pressure more steady for the demand. which will have to do with the flow rates for the pipe sizing depending on your fixtures, hot water storage may be a little laxed too, i take it these will be electric units and to bump them 10 gallons would not cost much more verses gas!!


my sizing charts tell me sch 80 @ 60psi 1 1/2 id. "should produce" 20 gal per minutes flow rate without a pressure drop for one thousand feet, and a four bathroom home requires 17 gal per minute as per "our" code (of course that does not take into consideration for weapons)you may have to settle for whatever size tap they provide from the local utilities then up-size from there!!


we also use insta-tite fittings from meuller brass for all service lines as per local codes!!


good luck !!



Murph' (SOS)

Jon_2

Toilets are 1.5 gal., Main is 10 inch and no change in elevation to speak of. It is with-in + or - a ft. change in elevation. The shower useage bothers me, for all five showers will be running constantly for an hour after they arrive back from hunting at night. And I know they will allow restrictors in the shower heads, for that has all ready been discussed.

[Deleted User]

'scuse me

20 guys ain't showering with a 40 gallon electric water heater....nope...aint gonna happen...better hide their shotguns now...

Jackchips

Looks like

there is a 40 gallon in each unit Gerry.

I agree that there is not enough information to size the line properly. You need the elevation difference from the main to the highest fixture, the type of toilet and it's minimum pressure to operate and the residual pressure at the point of connection at the main. Is the 55 psi residual or static? There can be a large discrepancy in water main pressure during heavy use periods.

It would appear that a minimum of 11/2" would be required to meet the minimum demands if the 55 psi is residual and there is not a large elevation change with the main below the building.

[Deleted User]

yup,your right

but still, with 4 guys to a 40 gallon heater...he stated he wants to run the shower for an hour..i think he will have about 32 gallons of usable hot water, roughly, that would probably be around what,,,maybe 6-8 minutes apiece....i dont know about tired hunters but this tired plumber spends at least 20 minutes in the shower.

Jim Walls

10\" water main

Jon, have you asked the purveyor of that watermain, where you might be able to get some assistance? I would have to think if water is available there has to be someone who could assist you. When I think rural, theres a well involved. Either that or as others have already stated try to locate a copy of the local or state plumbing code. Good Luck

Jon_2

Jim, you are right Thanks Jon

Greg Swob

Run your question by

the visitors at www.icbo.org in the code chat section under plumbing. You may get a variety of answers and a few questions. Question #1 will be "what code edition is adopted in your area". Keep the use of terms such as 'political hacks' to a minimum, as you will be speaking with them (code officials). The IRC has an excellent sizing set of tables in it, see if your local library has an issue. As posted earlier, various information will be needed first, as it all figures into the calcs. Greg

Jon_2

Thanks Greg, I will try them. Sorry about the label on the code-enforcement officer, but the poor guy is out of his element and a brother-in-law of the head of the local ruling party. He will tell you he does not know nor does he care. cest la vive!