sch 40 pvc dwv underground

Jim Walls

I have been installing pvc & cast iron for over 25 years. To this date have not had, nor heard of any failures,complaints,or negative comments of any kind about any pvc installations. Just like everything else it has it's applications,limits, and installation guidelines. You must use the correct primer,cleaner,solvent
for the application,install within the proper climate conditions, store the material & primer,cleaner,solvent within the temperature ranges identified by the manufacturer
Do I like it,would I choose one over the other? I'am a throwback, I love the skills required to use cast iron,I wish we were still wiping lead and using lead & oakum joints. But that is not realistic, I see nothing wrong with pvc, when installed within ALL, rules & guidelines. I just removed the old glogged cast iron & galvinized from my house & put in pvc. My company does alot of commercial work, schools,hospitals,etc,,,many of these have pvc undergrounds & cast iron upper roughs,pvc underground will not allow roots to penetrate,doesnot react to soil conditions, cast iron above ground is quieter, keeps the toxic fumes out of open return air plenums and so on.
So to sum it up, I wish we didnot use Pvc, but I cannot find a reason not to.

Brian_8

pvc sch 40 dwv underground installations

I have recently been appointed to our counties plumbing board, and the subject of allowing pvc underground has surfaced. any input positive or negative will be of great help. Also any real life experiences of replacing failed pvc underground. My main concern is that if we allow its use, it will not be installed per ASTM D2321. Thanks for your input.

chuck shaw

PVC underground

I have been doing PVC underground since I started in the trade. (20 yrs) and to my knowlege non have had a problem relating to the PVC itself. I have had pipes crushed by machines, filled with sand by kids, and cut up and taken out by vandals. Of course this could have happend with cast iron or copper as well. These were all in buildings that were non comercial.

Hope this helps,

Chuck Shaw

Mad Dog

Hi Brian...pvc underground...hmmmmmm

Let's start with pvc above-ground. They've been installing it for about 30 years or so, right? From what I see, it does not hold up too well at all...splitting , joints pulling apart, forget the sagging, it was suppossed to last forever and never get clogged either...WRONG. Its proponents will tell you that was not installed properly, but even good installations that i have seen are showing real wear and tear. The restrictions in our county on pvc underground make it simpler and cheaper to use Iron. Iron will last anywhere from 50 to 80 years. Our plumbing board is very restrictive and hopefully yours is too. Good Luck

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

PVC underground

> I have recently been appointed to our counties

> plumbing board, and the subject of allowing pvc

> underground has surfaced. any input positive or

> negative will be of great help. Also any real

> life experiences of replacing failed pvc

> underground. My main concern is that if we allow

> its use, it will not be installed per ASTM

> D2321. Thanks for your input.



My home has two water meters--one for domestic and one for irrigation. The irrigation main was allowed to be run in PVC (same trench as the type K copper) as the copper provided a "tracer".

Stupidly, I used a PVC male adapter at the transition of the PVC to copper when it passed through the foundation. It sheared within 1 year. It is now a PVC female.

No problems (so far) with the PVC entrance BUT:

As with all plastic I find that it becomes brittle over time--EVEN WHEN UNDERGROUND.

My irrigation system is schedule 40 PVC. When "problems" occur and replacement must be made I find that the PVC that originally cut like "butter" with a nice ratcheting cutter now snaps apart.

Jackchips

I believe all

the major plumbing codes allow schedule 40 PVC/ABS underground, even IAPMO, which is the most restrictive. Although, it may only be for residential use.

I have also been installing PVC here in Mass since the early 70's and have not had the problems that Mad Dog mentioned. Here in Mass we have our own State code and are required to install PVE in a 6" sand bed.

From my experiences it is an excellent product if installed per the manufacturers recommendations (sound familiar wet heads?).

murph'_3

hub and gasketed here

> I have recently been appointed to our counties

> plumbing board, and the subject of allowing pvc

> underground has surfaced. any input positive or

> negative will be of great help. Also any real

> life experiences of replacing failed pvc

> underground. My main concern is that if we allow

> its use, it will not be installed per ASTM

> D2321. Thanks for your input.

murph'_3

hub and gasketed here

sewer lines installed outside of buildings are of SDR 35 sewer pipe, always green in color to be easily identified. fittings are either white or green in color and provide a waterproof seal which can be tested. indoors is anyones preference since it is like the wild wild west around here. biggest concern here is water infiltration into the service lines and overrunning the limitations of the treatment plants!! possibly Pat O'neil could shed more light on the wye' of getting cited from the DEP and the fines they can levy!!



Murph' (SOS)

Al Letellier

PVC UNDERGROUND

Not a problem as long as it's regular sch 40 PVC. Do not allow the use of foam core PVC underground. It siimply doesn't have the strength and I've seen this stuff split in cold weather just by dropping it on the ground. With solvent and cement, there should be no problem with joints. As with any type of pipe, proper installation in packed clear sand will minimize any sagging or pitch "pockets".
Have been using Sch 40 underground in Maine for many years with no major reported problems.

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masterplumb

Not in my house

In Westchester County, N.Y. they just approved it for underground last year, and I have yet to use it . I would not put it in my house. Cast Iron is the way to go, it will outlast all of us. The PVC may be cheaper but C.I. is far superior. Its like comparing a Hyundai to a Mercedes . Both will drive but the Mercedes is built much better. Chris

mp1969

PVC Underground

Brian,
Time is always the best test of product and while Wisconsin is always a little slow to approve new products,we allowed pvc several years later than the surrounding states of Minnesota and Michigan. The reluctance for using this great system comes from labor organizations (lost manhours) and that age old change hesitancy.
PVC is superior to cast iron when installed within the parameters of its design. It is slippery, less clogging, and at this time the best material for waste and vent that I am aware of. The cleaner and solvent used for joining are however heavy with MSDS warnings and must be used carefully with respect to ventilation and fire hazard.
I still am not convinced about the CPVC for potable water as the above mentioned chemicals certainly must linger inside that solent weld joint.
I started in the trade full time in 1969 and went from the cast iron lead joints, to neoprene push joints , to no-hub joints all in response to the evolution of the plastic systems. PVC watermain using rubber push joints is also used and has evolved into a sound alternative to the cumbersome cast iron or ductile watermains.
Negatives are the fact that plastics have a higher co-eficient of expansion / contraction and it is ultraviolet sensitive.
Would be happy to provide more info if you want to contact me. I have participated in many system design and specification conferences.

Rich Konty

e-mail: richk@nconnect.com

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Caselli

lost my message

Rats...
I prepared a "well-thought-out" reply.
When I tried to send, it returned me because I hadn't entered my name.
Now my message is gone, and I'm not going to do it over.
Short answer: I don't like PVC under slabs. That should be iron.