Tankless Hot water

Irene

I am replacing my gas fired old gross (like that technical decription?)steam boiler and at the same time replacing my current gas HWH (with a bad dip tube, among other problems). I have been following the news about gas prices, both here and in the news. So my question is, should I replace the HWH with an electic tankless or a gas fired tankless one? By the way I am halfway through "The Lost Art Of steam Heating Book" very fascinating..
Thanks
Irene

Jackchips

Hello Irene,

I installed a Tagaki "Aquastar" direct fired water heater about two months ago and it appears to be an excellent product. My situation is a little different as it is in series with my existing 50 gallon, tank heater and is used to heat my swimming pool, through a heat exchanger, and my domestic water.

It has been operating flawlessly for two months. Hopefully you, and I, will get more feed back from your question.

J.C.A._3

Irene,

Indirects and steam do work. You can get a high quality indirect with a much longer warranty than a point of use/tankless unit And have enough to fill that jet tub you've been thinking about.(just a guess)

I have done a few of these with no complaints. If you're worried about trying to heat and make hot water at the same time, good quality programable thermostats will accomplish it easily. Just another suggestion. Chris

Irene_2

cost

I think I didn't make my question very clear. Does anyone have any recomendations for either the use of electric or gas tankless. I was looking for a gas one but I have noticed my gas bill getting higher and higher every month and I am wondering if switching to electric for hot water makes sense. Another question, can any tankless heater be vented up a flue or do they all need to be direct to the outside?
Thanks, Irene

Jackchips

The Aquastar 240

can be vented either way. I prefer not to quote what I was invoiced as I bought it as a "retired" contractor.

I would not recommend electric in the New England area if natural gas is available. I am not familiar with gas and electric comparisons in other areas of the country.

kevin coppinger_4

well it depends....

what are your electric rates like? I would not consider electric here in NH if gas was an option. ( 15 cents a kilowatt hour is steep) If your gas water heater is/was not efficient that will make a diff. Another question is what are your needs. whirlpools? large showers? multiple baths to be run at once?
What is your heating system? is a fuel switch in order if you are changing out your boiler? maybe to oil?
If you can get a really good contractor to listen to you and your concerns/needs that would be best!
What is the condition of your chimney? Lined ,unlined ,b-vent?That will answer the question as to how it can be vented. kpc

Mark Hunt

Irene


Consider how that electricity is generated. Most likely a gas burning power plant. When the gas goes up, so goes the electricity.

As an earlier post stated, you can have an indirect tank with your steam boiler.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Dale

Gas is the best

2 reasons, first as the other post suggested fuel cost gas or elect go up together since ALL power plants being built are gas, this needs to change but that's another story. Second, the heat transfer rate of the electrics is very low compared to gas which means the water flow possible to get what volume you want is really limited, all tankless heaters must have soft water to them or they lime up, if water is hard in your area most tankless warranties spec soft water. If I had a basement, which I do, I wouldn't get a tankless since the good ones are really expensive compared to a storage type heater, and the parts are much more complex. However for condo use or multilevel the Bosch and Tagaki (SP) are very well made and have high flow rate in gas.

Geno_7

choice

> Consider how that electricity is generated.

> Most likely a gas burning power plant. When the

> gas goes up, so goes the electricity.

>

> As an

> earlier post stated, you can have an indirect

> tank with your steam boiler.

>

> Mark H

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 238&Step=30"_To Learn More About This Contractor,

> Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A

> Contractor"_/A_

Irene

venting

I have a fairly newly lined flue that is used for the HWH now. I also will be venting the new steam boiler the same way. As far as usage. It would be for one bathroom, kitchen with dishwasher. That's all, the washer heats it's own water. So I think usage is not that high. I had read on a web site for a tankless that it had to be vented to the outside so I was just wondering if they all had to be vented that way and which one could be done up a flue.
Thanks
Irene

Geno_7

choice

If you have gas, heat, stove, dryer etc. stick with gas. If not switch to oil if feasible in your area. Oil has more btu's per gallon than gas. In other words you would have to burn @ 1 1/3 gal's of gas to equal 1 gal. of oil, roughly. As far as oil prices, hmmm, no one can predict the future, I'm hearing it can go either way. The important thing is to be as efficient as you can. The man with the gold makes the rules so I think they are all going up. Electric doesn't even enter into it. The recovery is that slow. Indirect hot water tanks are the most efficient for many reasons. For one you can set up your steam boiler to run when there's a call for heat or h/w and maintain a low stand-by temp to keep it fron condensing and rotting out. You don't want your boiler to go cold. This way your boiler is not running at 160*-200* all day just so you have h/w on tap with a tankless coil. Your contractor should be able to explain these options.
Geno

Dale

With the low need you have

One bath and a kitchen is a small water use for one or 2 people assuming the bath doesn't have a big whirlpool tub or some such. Hearing that you have a lined flue and what sounds like a small house I would think the most cost effective approach would be a well insulated standard 40 gal. gas water heater. My house is set up this way and with a normal washer always set on high temp wash I use 16 to 20 therms a month, or 16 to $20 a month if all the fixed costs are added. So, do the math, decide what a reasonable payback is and then you'll know.

Irene

hot water

So you are saying that an indirect tank, hooked up to my boiler, which will be gas, is better than a conventional Hot water heater or a tankless HWH. I'm not thinking about a coil on the boiler. Why is it better to have the furnace running all year around? I only use the furnace from about December to April, the rest of the time I sort of ignore it. Which brings up another question, what should I be doing service wise with the system the reat of the year?
Thanks
Irene

Irene

hot water

So you are saying that an indirect tank, hooked up to my boiler, which will be gas, is better than a conventional Hot water heater or a tankless HWH. I'm not thinking about a coil on the boiler. Why is it better to have the furnace running all year around? I only use the furnace from about December to April, the rest of the time I sort of ignore it. Which brings up another question, what should I be doing service wise with the system the reat of the year?
Thanks
Irene

Geno_7

h/w

It's easy to get confused but a furnace is warm air and a hydronic or steam system uses a boiler. Service the system once a year. You'd run the unit year round to get h/w and prevent condensation and rot- the metal will rust from the condensation- depends on the units location. This is why it's very hard to diagnose or recomend things over the net. There are so many variables like the next person suggests you need to research and make the right decision for you and your situation. I'd say at this point get estimates and suggestions from 3 contractors, ask them each to give you 2-3 options or different systems and their costs. You may have to pay if you don't buy the system from them but you may save a lot of money and aggravation from the added info. good luck
Geno

J.C.A._3

Irene,

Why keep a seperate water heater? If your going to replace the heater, make use of the "new" higher effecientcy unit to also make your hot water.

#1 , you'll be able to use the exsisting chimney (unless it was undersized to begin with, A RAREITY!!!)#2 You will also have 1 unit supplying all desired services,and avoiding having to pay service for 2 appliances. This could be the deciding factor, as most utilities don't give service away to customers anymore.

I'm a firm believer in "less is more" . It may not be in the short term, but in the long run, to quote Snap On Tools..."quality is priceless" . Think about the long term application . If your going to be in the home for a long period of time, our suggestions make sense . If your going to turn it over in a short period of time, go with the least expensive , "pass the savings on to the customer".
I personally don't do things that way , but if that was the answer you were looking for ..... Chris

Irene_2

boiler

No, I am not looking for the least expensive way. I am just trying to understand if using the boiler all year round to heat the hot water is more efficient than a separate dedicated HWH or a tankless heater. If you don't use the boiler to heat hot water do you turn if "off" during the 8 months that you are not using it? Or does a pilot stay on for some reason. I am curious because last year when I called my company that has the service contract, at the beginning of the season to come give it a checkup they asked me if I had turned the boiler on yet. I didn't know that I was suppose to turn it off... Just looking for some guidance and advice. What ever I install will be done by a professional.
Thanks
Irene