Bonding Tile problem w/radiant

ScottMP

Has any one ever heard of a problem with marble floor tiles "poping" off the floor due to the floor heat being on during installation ?

We have a nice job that the master bathroom floor tiles did not bond to the floor adhesive.

The floor people are saying the floor heat was on and thats what effected the bonding agent. The bonding agent stuck to the floor but no the back of the tile.

Well if thats a problem would'nt they feel the heat when they where on thier knees duing the install ? Would'nt you shut off the heat ?

Regardless, Have any of you ever had this problem and is it something I should be watching for in the future ?

Thanks

Scott

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hot_rod

what's the backer system

Tile should really be "set" on a mud base or cementous backer board systems, Durarock, etc. Also the subfloor should be at least an inch thick, some tile sites recommend 1-1/4" of subfloor thickness, including the backer board.

Is the floor joist system up to the task? Undersized floor joist allow to much spring and large tiles, especially, tend to have problems staying down.

How about temperatures? A sudden, wide temperature change causes expansion and potential bond stress. Another reason the substrate wants to be of a similar material. Temperature spec on the adhesive? Try the TCA, Tile Council website and others for more troubleshooting advise.

hot rod

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Floyd_2

I have..

the owner of a bar that I put radiant under an addition called and wondered how to turn the heat off... he said he had to redo the tile because the tile people claimed that the heat was why it was coming up.. same story... the heat would keep the tile from bonding properly.
Sounded kind of goofy to me....
I think in this case they didn't put enough subfloor down and then set heavy pool tables on the floor and then with oodles of drunk idiots on the floor, also, there was too much flex in the floor and it poped the tiles.....

Maybe I was wrong...

Oh well...

It won't be the last time...:-)

Floyd

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Make CERTAIN that the tile adhesive used is approved for the marble. MANY types of mud/adhesive specifically say not to use with marble.

ScottMP

Hot rod

This is a brand new house with engineered floor joist's.
On top of that is 3/4" ply with our 1/2 Stadler climate panel. The tile guys stapled down a wire mesh with 1" of mud. The adhesive they used stcu very well to the mud job but the marble tiles did not stick in a number of spots.

It appeared to me that the adhesive did not even stick to the back of the marble, quite hard and attached well to the floor but the tiles could be lifted right up by hand.

What do you think ?

Scott

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hot_rod

I'm getting ready

to try my hand at some slate tile installation. I went to a tile supply company for DIY advise. As Mike mentioned there are specfic adhesives for different products. He recommened a Marble adhesive product for my slate.

A good tip he shared was to seal the top side of the slate tiles before setting them. This allow easier clean up of the grout. HOWEVER, he said to be sure not to get the sealer on the back side or the adhesive would not adhere properly. Same for the edges where the grout contacts. I plan on holding the tiles upside down to keep the sealer from the edge and bottom.

Could it be the tiles had a finish or coating that prevented the adhesive from sticking? That or the wrong adhesive would be my best guess.

Knotched trowel for the adhesive and some setters lightly "back butter the tile also, especially for poorly gauged slate, like I have

hot rod

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

Natural slate

I've done quite a bit of tile but slate only once, and it was a restoration using existing random size/color slate. Wasn't difficult and it's performing fine even though installed directly over plywood--not my preferred way but it was the ONLY way in this case. Since it was previously sealed there was no problem with mortar sticking in the pores of the stone but can tell you were given VERY GOOD ADVICE to seal the top surface BEFOREHAND. (One of those flat foam "brushes" would likely be ideal.)

Get ready for an experience when working with tile that varies in thickness as yours seems to do. It can be exascerbating as it is VERY easy to push down a corner of one of the thinner pieces (it will have more mortar underneath) and the ONLY things are: live with it; take it back up. Those hand-made Mexican tiles are the absolute WORST in this regard--most jobs I see with it look like utter crap as they just let it be TERRIBLY inconsistent in height!

With tile that is consistent in thickness a "banging board" (a 2x10 3'-4' long covered in medium pile, high density carpet) is great to get everything perfectly even BUT it's nearly impossible to use with something that's not consistent as you ALWAYS seem to push down corners when using it...

I know you've used "Warm Tiles" electric floor warming but don't know if you've installed the tile. The little clips SUCK!!! They cause the tile to not lie perfectly flat unless you use TOO MUCH thinset. About 2/3 of the way through the one job where I used the system I started removing the clips right before putting the tile on top and things came out perfectly even--just as I like.

One other thing: mix your adhesive in SMALL batches--particularly when you have to go slowly because you're "buttering" the tiles. Don't rush the "slaking time" as the consistency changes greatly. I've found that many thinsets have a strange habit of actually becoming significantly THINNER after about 30 minutes and it's VERY difficult to be consistent with your "butter" once this occurs. (I believe this is intentional as it allows the thinset to go in nearly 100% contact with substrate and tile.)

Dana Zaichkin

On another tile tangent

I am having a heck of a time getting a response from my Maxxon installer what the preferred product is for leveling minor variances in the gypcrete (like around sleepers, etc) as well as recommended bonding morters between the (unsealed) gyp and the isolation membrane. Any experiences or guidance?

Best Regards

Dana