Basement Rad but no heat

Jonathan

A FHB 'Breaktime' poster had me check here for info on my problem. Wow lots of info but I cannot quite find the solution - here's the text of the message I left over there. Any help would be appreciated!!

************
I have a question for the HW heating contractors/experts/passionate tinkerers out there. My forced HW system, inherited with the house, is a combination of new and old, cast and copper, rads and underslab PEX. It works fine up here in Toronto with one singular exception and that is a large rad taking up residence under a window in the front of the basement.

You see, the two cast iron distribution pipes are above the level of the rad itself, in the basement ceiling, while the rad sits on the basement floor. Not only that but the rad itself is tapped at its top for hot water supply in, and at the bottom-opposite for a cooler return. The difference between these is the height of the radiator, roughly three feet, and its length, roughly four feet.

The only way to get this rad humming is to basically shut off the first and second floor rads in that end of the house above the basement, effectively forcing the distributors to serve this basement rad alone. Serious heat downstairs but an unacceptable situation upstairs.

None of this was an issue until I looked at that corner of the basement and "saw" an office!! It was cool but not cold, dry, and a great place to store wine. Now though I need BTU's, not booze.

Of course, I realize that 'just one rad' is actually part of a larger system and to muck around might have ramifications I never dreamed of but at worst I'm back where I started (right?).

So, not being a student of fluid dynamics I'm asking: what combination of tapping alterations and perhaps reduction in flow diameter to feed or drain this unit might persuade it to warm my feet this winter?

the cast distributors are 2" o.d. running 170F at source
the cast supply and return from the distributors to the rad are1.25" o.d.
the supply drops approx 3.5 ' and runs approx 3.0 ' to tap into the top of the rad
the return comes from the bottom opposite tap, under the rad (4.0') and then rises almost 7.0' to then run alongside the supply (3.0'), meeting the return manifold
My spidey-senses tell me that a larger diameter supply (e.g. 1" copper off the cast) running to the bottom-opposite (floor) tap might work if the return side is served by something of a smaller diameter (e.g. 3/4" copper to the cast). Heat rises still, doesn't it??

Logic however tells me that I've already got gravity working against me so why create a return bottleneck by putting in a narrower tube on the cold side? I mean, that's probably part of my problem right now on the supply side as the water just gives up when it hits the rad while the upstairs stays toasty. And besides that, with the pump working for me, are supply/return restrictions part of this answer at all?

So whadda ya think folks?

Thanks in advance,

Jonathan.

Jonathan

Basement rad but no heat

A FHB 'Breaktime' poster had me check here for info on my problem. Wow lots of info but I cannot quite find the solution - here's the text of the message I left over there. Any help would be appreciated!!

************

I have a question for the HW heating contractors/experts/passionate tinkerers out there. My forced HW system, inherited with the house, is a combination of new and old, cast and copper, rads and underslab PEX. It works fine up here in Toronto with one singular exception and that is a large rad taking up residence under a window in the front of the basement.

You see, the two cast iron distribution pipes are above the level of the rad itself, in the basement ceiling, while the rad sits on the basement floor. Not only that but the rad itself is tapped at its top for hot water supply in, and at the bottom-opposite for a cooler return. The difference between these is the height of the radiator, roughly three feet, and its length, roughly four feet.

The only way to get this rad humming is to basically shut off the first and second floor rads in that end of the house above the basement, effectively forcing the distributors to serve this basement rad alone. Serious heat downstairs but an unacceptable situation upstairs.

None of this was an issue until I looked at that corner of the basement and "saw" an office!! It was cool but not cold, dry, and a great place to store wine. Now though I need BTU's, not booze.

Of course, I realize that 'just one rad' is actually part of a larger system and to muck around might have ramifications I never dreamed of but at worst I'm back where I started (right?).

So, not being a student of fluid dynamics I'm asking: what combination of tapping alterations and perhaps reduction in flow diameter to feed or drain this unit might persuade it to warm my feet this winter?

the cast distributors are 2" o.d. running 170F at source
the cast supply and return from the distributors to the rad are1.25" o.d.
the supply drops approx 3.5 ' and runs approx 3.0 ' to tap into the top of the rad
the return comes from the bottom opposite tap, under the rad (4.0') and then rises almost 7.0' to then run alongside the supply (3.0'), meeting the return manifold
My spidey-senses tell me that a larger diameter supply (e.g. 1" copper off the cast) running to the bottom-opposite (floor) tap might work if the return side is served by something of a smaller diameter (e.g. 3/4" copper to the cast). Heat rises still, doesn't it??

Logic however tells me that I've already got gravity working against me so why create a return bottleneck by putting in a narrower tube on the cold side? I mean, that's probably part of my problem right now on the supply side as the water just gives up when it hits the rad while the upstairs stays toasty. And besides that, with the pump working for me, are supply/return restrictions part of this answer at all?

So whadda ya think folks?

Thanks in advance,

Jonathan.

Jonathan

Basement rad but no heat

A FHB 'Breaktime' poster had me check here for info on my problem. Wow lots of info but I cannot quite find the solution - here's the text of the message I left over there. Any help would be appreciated!!

************

I have a question for the HW heating contractors/experts/passionate tinkerers out there. My forced HW system, inherited with the house, is a combination of new and old, cast and copper, rads and underslab PEX. It works fine up here in Toronto with one singular exception and that is a large rad taking up residence under a window in the front of the basement.

You see, the two cast iron distribution pipes are above the level of the rad itself, in the basement ceiling, while the rad sits on the basement floor. Not only that but the rad itself is tapped at its top for hot water supply in, and at the bottom-opposite for a cooler return. The difference between these is the height of the radiator, roughly three feet, and its length, roughly four feet.

The only way to get this rad humming is to basically shut off the first and second floor rads in that end of the house above the basement, effectively forcing the distributors to serve this basement rad alone. Serious heat downstairs but an unacceptable situation upstairs.

None of this was an issue until I looked at that corner of the basement and "saw" an office!! It was cool but not cold, dry, and a great place to store wine. Now though I need BTU's, not booze.

Of course, I realize that 'just one rad' is actually part of a larger system and to muck around might have ramifications I never dreamed of but at worst I'm back where I started (right?).

So, not being a student of fluid dynamics I'm asking: what combination of tapping alterations and perhaps reduction in flow diameter to feed or drain this unit might persuade it to warm my feet this winter?

the cast distributors are 2" o.d. running 170F at source

the cast supply and return from the distributors to the rad are 1.25" o.d.

the supply drops approx 3.5 ' and runs approx 3.0 ' to tap into the top of the rad

the return comes from the bottom opposite tap, under the rad (4.0') and then rises almost 7.0' to then run alongside the supply (3.0'), meeting the return manifold

My spidey-senses tell me that a larger diameter supply (e.g. 1" copper off the cast) running to the bottom-opposite (floor) tap might work if the return side is served by something of a smaller diameter (e.g. 3/4" copper to the cast). Heat rises still, doesn't it??

Logic however tells me that I've already got gravity working against me so why create a return bottleneck by putting in a narrower tube on the cold side? I mean, that's probably part of my problem right now on the supply side as the water just gives up when it hits the rad while the upstairs stays toasty. And besides that, with the pump working for me, are supply/return restrictions part of this answer at all?

So whadda ya think folks?

Thanks in advance,

Jonathan.

Steamhead

Bet you have an Air Problem

is there any way to bleed the air from the overhead lines going to that radiator?

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Earthfire

sediment trap

check that basement radiator for sediment and other blockage. It may just need a good flushing. Over the years rust and other goo that lives in a closed loop may have settled into the low point of the system, the radiator.

Steve Paul

basement radiator

My question to you is, did this radiator ever work properly? If it did then I would be looking for an air problem or as previuosly suggested a clogging problem. If it "NEVER" worked well, I would think that you need to have 2- MONOFLOW or VENTURI Tees installed on the main. one on the supply side and one on the return side of the radiator. The spacing of the Tees in the overhead main should be at least the same as the width of the radiator. The pressure drop across the radiator is greater than the pressure drop between the supply and the return Tees in the main. The water takes the path of least resistance and just zips past the radiator. By installing 2 mono flow or venturi Tees, you increase the pressure drop in the main relative to the radiator thereby "FORCING" the water to travel through the radiator.