LWCO

Geno_2

Steve, how old is the auto feed? New ones are programmable to set feed rate and delay the fill. Some old systems do return water slow so by delaying the fill by a few minutes it gives the water time to return and the auto won't come on and overfill. If the feed is good you can install a time delay, delay on make,5 minutes and try that. Try flushing the returns to see if there's some blockage and check your vent[s].Hope this helps.
Geno.

Steve Whitbeck

LWCO

OK now I have a question
I have a customer with an old steam boiler. I replaced the Mcdonnald Miller regular style ( looks like a triangle ) float LWCO two years ago because it was sticking and had overfilled the boiler a couple of times. Well last month the new one did it again. The customer blows it down weekly. I took it apart and it looked almost new. Almost no sediment on top of the float and less in the bellows.
I know the problem is caused by the LWCO because if the customer shuts off power to the boiler the Mc D. M. feeder shuts off. So the problem has to be in the LWCO. My thought was to add another and wire them in series that way both have to stick before it would overfill the boiler.
Has anyone had the LWCO electrical contacts stick from the current of the feeder. ( old style with the plunger button for a manual fill ) If the contacts were to stick it would have the same results. Would adding a relay to the system to isolate the contacts from the load of the feeder be a smart move. Has anyone had this happen. This customer can't have the system overfill and flood the house.
Thanks

John@Reliable_3

LWCO overfilling

Steve, could be the returns and other piping is slow in returning water from system back to boiler,this can cause auto fill to add water and once boiler shuts down and all the water comes back boiler will be overfilled. This is one reason I don't like auto fills on old systems.Cleaning returns is fun. If your customer is blowing down like you said, how about just shutting it off? Also have you checked bypass valves (if present)?
I have seen afew of them leaking by in the past. Did you try to clean and flush auto fill? And last change the flow rate (rubber washer) in auto fill to a smaller output. Hope this helps John@Reliable

Edward A. Carey

LWCO

Steve,

Did you take the MM AWF control apart & clean it. If it is a typical 101 series MM there is a screen inside of it that requires cleaning. The seat of the valve can have debris inside of it, and be slowly leaking through.

Don't be too quick to blame the LWCO until you are sure that there is not a problem with the AWF. Many times the LWCO is the problem, however it sounds like this one may not be.

Good luck,

Ed Carey

Al Letellier

LWCO

Steve, I have one word of advise for you regarding installing an additional relay......LIABILITY!!!!!!!!!
Don't take the chance of altering a working system. You will own it. I do a lot of insurance investigations and you would be totally responsible if you alter a manufacturer's equipment like that. The best solution is the new electronic feeders as mentioned. You can program in that delay and let the feeder wait up to ten minutes if need be.
You been given some great advise about making sure what the problem is and you are to be congratulated for seeking help, but don't create a potential liability nightmare for yourself.....

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Steve Whitbeck

You guys missed the point
Their isn't anything wrong with the feeder-- it will shut off if you turn the power off to the boiler. So that means that the LWCO is still sending power to the LWCO. I have taken the LWCO apart every year. It looked almost new and had very litle sediment on the top of the float or the bellows.
If I install the new electronic unit ( I have used these on other newer systems) and the LWCO sticks then the new feeder will just lock out and the customer will be without heat. After two trys they will lock out.
This is not a condensate flooding problem - it is a LWCO problem - It is sticking on.
Customer turned the power off to the boiler to stop the boiler from overfilling. The water was above the sight glass and the feeder was still running. He then turned the power off on the wall that feeds the entire boiler and the water stopped.
What I am going to do is install a redundent LWCO and wire them in series.
My other thought was TOO much electrical load on the LWCO feeder circuits. Could this be causing the contacts to stick in?
Installing a relay external to the LWCO would take the current off the LWCO contacts and put it on the relay contacts that have a stronger opening capability.
This is not modifing the system it is just adding an isolation relay.
Come on guys I have been doing this for 29 years.
Have any of you guys had this happen.
Changing the feeder WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM - it will only multiply it.
Thanks Steve

John@Reliable_3

Steve, if you know it's

the LWCO switch why not just replace the switch? They do sell just the switch less the housing. One's I have found bad are always stuck in off LW condition.I have never had one sending power to auto feed while at proper level unless the float or switch were upside down , it was late and I was tried lol. Good luck John@Reliable

Steve Whitbeck

John -- The problem is that the customer doesn't want this to happen again. That is why I thought about redundency.
I will probably change the switch but if it is caused by current locking of the LWCO feeder contacts that may not stop it from happening again. They go away in the winter from time to time. If it was to stick it would be areal problem when they got back.
has anyone had this problem?
Thanks for the answers so far. Steve

Doug Oest

Sticking lwco switch

Hello Steve. Sounds like you have a MM 67 and a 101 feeder. Those two guys were meant for each other. I doubt it if that feeder was drawing too much amps.

Let me get this straight. The feeder feeds when the lwco is satisfied- right? That means that terminals 3 & 4 on the 67 have to be made. The only way they could be made is if the boiler was in a low water condition.

Did you troubleshoot the switch? Disconnect power to the switch and put your ohm meter across 1 & 2 of the 67 and operate the float manually to see if its making and breaking. Then, check 3 & 4 and do the same thing. With the float in the up position (water in the boiler), 1 & 2 should be made and 3 & 4 should be broken.

May be something else is providing power to the feeder when it shouldn't?

Something funny going on here. If you can't get it, try me at Burnham, may be I can help.

Robert O'Connor

Switch

I think they make two switches for this with different amp ratings

regards,

Robert

Steve Whitbeck

OK -- What I did was replace the 2 year old LWCO switch and install a second redundent LWCO. I then wired them in series so that both had to trip before it would feed water.

Thanks for the replies.
I never caught the LWCO acting up but it had to be the contacts sticking for the feeder circuit because all the customer had to do was turn the power off to the boiler to stop the water flow.

When the problem happened I took the LWCO apart and inspected it for any potential problems. None were found. It was clean and the switch worked every time.
Again thanks for the replies.

Steve Whitbeck

OK -- What I did was replace the 2 year old LWCO switch and install a second redundent LWCO. I then wired them in series so that both had to trip before it would feed water.

Thanks for the replies.
I never caught the LWCO acting up but it had to be the contacts sticking for the feeder circuit because all the customer had to do was turn the power off to the boiler to stop the water flow.

When the problem happened I took the LWCO apart and inspected it for any potential problems. None were found. It was clean and the switch worked every time.
Again thanks for the replies.