Test results from my boiler

Steamhead

Stack Temp and CO ud (or CO af for air-free, means the same thing) are higher than they should be. Did the tech clock the gas meter and compare the resulting BTU input with the boiler's Input rating? The flames might be too high, hitting the cast-iron and causing the higher CO reading. (Excess) Air is a bit high too, this may be causing the high stack temp. I'd say that boiler needs some fine-tuning, performed by an expert.

A strap-on aquastat is a control mounted on a pipe with a strap, whose job is to sense the temperature within the pipe and operate a switch when the set point is reached. These are mostly used as "high limit" controls, which stop the burner if the water in the pipe gets too hot.

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jim_14

what do you think of these?

Got this from an expert:

Nat gas reading

Flue Temp: 604.6 degrees

02: 12.8%

Boiler Effeciency: 68.6%

CO: 82 ppm

CO2: 4.6%

air: 156.7%

COud: 211 ppm at 73.5 outside temp

Now I know why my gas bills are high!

BTW whats a strap on aquastat?

jim_14

I dont know if he clocked the gas meter, I wasnt home at the time.

Boiler is 53 years old, converted from oil to gas burning (never ran on oil -house was always gas fed).

Basically it took about 2 hours in the morning for the steam to finally hit the rads, found out when I put on a digital t-stat. Then I realized how long my boiler was on during the day and week. Some days was 12 to 14 hours of running time.

Had a few repairs in the last 5 years.. got a new LWCO and a gas valve and electronic ignition module? , not all at once.. Also was mis-firing at one point (loud boom at startup) and was adjusted to stop that.

Bottom line is I threw some money into this thing as well as the high gas bills and cold mornings so I realize Im on borrowed time with it anyway.

[Deleted User]

holy smokes

it takes two hours for steam to get to the radiators....yikes,,,once that headers hot, you should have steam at the radiators in minutes...vents,me thinks vents,,or the lack of,,,,you dont have a hole above waterline do you?

rudy_2

Clock the meter

Just a guess, but like Steamhead said you might want to clock the meter. An O2 reading of almost 13% is way too high - should probably be in the 7% to 9% range.

That high of an O2 reading suggests the boiler is way underfired. Clocking the meter is fairly easy, we have a section on doing that at http://www.bacharach-training.com/referpage/clocking_gas_meter.htm

Another good possibility is too much draft, did the tech check that? A high draft reading could also account for the high O2, CO and stack temp.

Let us know what you find out.

tim smith_2

combustion readings

tim smith_2

combustion readings

I would question underfiring as the stack temp is at 600+, more likely to be overfired I think. Also CO2 should be around 8 to 9.5%, If I am remembering correctly that's about 5.5 to 6.5% O2. Don't quote me on the conversion to O2, I don't have my conversion chart in front of me and my analyzer does it automatically. Hope this helps.

Dale

Is the burner a gun type

Is this a gas conversion burner that looks like an oil burner? Maybe an Economite or a Wayne? The reading you cite could be from a very dirty heat exchanger or from no gullitine in the vent pipe from the boiler. Most conversions required taking a CO2 reading and choking off the vent until the CO2 was about 8%. If the vent pipe gets replaced the person doing it doesn't understand why the old pipe had the gate in it and leaves it out, then the test results are what you have. Perhaps Timmie will comment on this since he has done alot of these.

rudy_2

O2/CO2 conversion

You're well within the ballpark, a 7 - 9% O2 translates to a 8 - 6.7% CO2.

If I was a gamblin' man, however, I'd still bet money the unit is underfired and the high stack temp is due to scale build up on the water side of a 53 year old boiler. Also, a high stack temp can be caused by underfiring and preventing the flue gases from 'scrubbing' the heat exchanger surface and reducing heat transfer.

Then again, these test results could also be due to an excessive amount of draft (If ya don't test, ya don't know).

Fred P

I do not have a main vent in my system

But a few guys told me that it was designed that way and worked that way (at least 53 years ago it probably did).

Since my house is "small" the pipe riser run is relatively short I was told my rads should be able to handle the venting.

I believe the guy who told me that b/c my house is 1 of 5 attached row houses -same builder and same boiler, piping, etc

My next door neighbor replaced her boiler maybe 15 to 20 years ago, and she gets heat within 15 mins. She too does not have a main vent. I know for a fact -I checked. And Im guessing the other 3 houses do not have a main vent either. My other neighbor has a new boiler too (replaced last year) and doesnt have that 2 hour problem, and I believe didnt have that problem with the previous boiler.

Maybe I should post a pic??

Fred P

I did have the boilers firing adjusted I think..

A few years back my boiler was "exploding" so to speak- I forgot that exact term but it was a boom like when I BBQ flares up..

It was adjusted some how to stop doing that... maybe its underfired that way??

Steamhead

And

when the boiler is running, does a plume of white smoke come out the top of the chimney? Does the feed valve turn on a lot to refill the boiler with water? Both are sure signs the boiler is leaking.

Try this. With the boiler warm (BUT NOT HOT) slowly open the feed valve to slowly raise the water level to the very top of the sight glass. If there is a crack near the normal water level, it will show up as water on the floor! If you don't get any water at this point, slowly raise the water level until it enters the steam risers from the boiler. If you don't get any water spilling out of the boiler by now, it is probably OK.

In that case, check the firing rate on the burner by clocking the meter. Also check to see if the boiler is clean, and clean it if needed. Cleaning and clocking are best done by a pro- go to the Find a Contractor page of this site to locate one near you.

All steam mains need properly-sized vents. Measure the length and diameter of yours and we can tell you what you need.

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jim_14

I have never noticed( and picture inside this msg)

any white smoke coming out from the chimney (at least last year- I havent run it this year yet).

I don't have an automatic feed, I add water manually usually once a week or week and a half.

I will try that warm boiler thing.. I think once I over filled the boiler and it would not turn on until I lowered the water level... Cant remember exactly.. When I was helping my neighbor w/her boiler I over filled it by mistake once and water was coming out from the top- I believe there is a relief valve of some sort???

I will measure the steam main- but Ive been told I dont need one because its a very short run... My neighbor gets her heat rather quickly and she does not have a main vent and her house is an exact duplicate of mine.. Question... assuming her piping and venting (no main vent) are exactly as mine why does she get heat so quickly and I do not?

Pipe1 pic is directly above boiler, pipe3 pic is the first 90 degree turn before it runs the length of the house , it would be about 2 feet past the sheetrock wall you see in pipe1 pic -2 risers go up from this point feeding 1 rad on floor 1 and 2 rads on floor two

pipe 6 is the end of the run -not much clearance for a main vent?? notice 3 risers feeding 2 rads on floor 1 and 1 on floor 2, there is one more riser you cant see that I believe feeds 1 rad on floor 2 ,its in the middle of this steam main's run.

pipe 4 pic is a couple of feet before the 1 riser that you cant see in the middle of this pipes run. Im guessing its a cap for one more rad that was never installed????

Unknown

Jim you have air leaks big time

your excess air is up around 150 % - should be down at 20 to 25%.

Give me the Make, Model and Serial number of the conversion burner.

You need to get a professional who understands how to refurbish your boiler and stop all the air leaks. That is the first order of business. Once all the leaks are sealed then the burner can be set up correctly.

Please get in touch with me so we can help you get this resolved or you will need a second job to pay this coming winters gas bills.

I just saw your pictures - can you take a picture of the burner. From the looks of that boiler it needs some major work. It may be time for a new boiler. The cost to repair would perhaps be better spent on a new boiler. I will reserve judgement when I see some pictures of the burner area.

jim_14

i clocked the meter and came up with 64,000 BTU

if I did it correctly. My meter only has 2 dials the 1/2 dial times at 28 secs and according to that chart it should be 64,000 BTU

rudy_2

Underfired

Your clocking and the fact that it takes 2 hours to make steam sure seems to indicate it's underfired.

Given the situation, I'd suggest you get a 'qualified' tech to take a look at it.

I'd also consider replacing it, 52 years is certainly a full service life and the savings in fuel consumption could help defray replacement costs. If you haven't checked yet, I'd look at the Find a Contractor section here and see if any of these folks are in your area.

Good luck

Fred P

I am replacing it I was just curious

> Your clocking and the fact that it takes 2 hours

> to make steam sure seems to indicate it's

> underfired.

>

> Given the situation, I'd suggest

> you get a 'qualified' tech to take a look at

> it.

>

> I'd also consider replacing it, 52 years

> is certainly a full service life and the savings

> in fuel consumption could help defray replacement

> costs. If you haven't checked yet, I'd look at

> the Find a Contractor section here and see if any

> of these folks are in your area.

>

> Good luck

Fred P

I am replacing it I was just curious

about the test results and associated problems. I know 53 years is living on borrowed time.

rudy_2

Great!!

After a few months of use, you'll have to get back with this board and let us know how much your fuel consumption comes down.

My guess is that you'll save a fortune!!