Poor Job of Educating Public

heretic

to regulation.

Do you really want the Feds to get involved in your business at this level?
Do you want the folks who invented AFUE ratings to tell you what to do? Heck, Air systems are MORE efficient if you use their 'yardstick'.
A CAFE equivalent would be a lousy way to build up the radiant install base.
Since even the top experts rarely agree on the 'best' method for heating any given structure, can you imagine a set of regulations that would actually help matters?

Art Calley

Poor Job of Educating Public

We have no one to blame but ourselves for the present trend of hot air heating in 95% of new homes.

We have done an extremely poor job of informing the public of the pros and cons of heating system. It's the one consumer investment that they know virtually nothing about.

Consumers take test drives in cars, read reviews in CR, etc. But ask them about what heating system they have and they reply "Honeywell".

Who's to blame? I believe it's our National and Regional organizations. They are not getting the word out. Brochures, articles, public service announcements are some ways to do it.

If the RPA were as dynamic as the NRA, the phone would never stop ringing!

Art

hot_rod

care to put your money behind your mouth

Any idea what kind of budget Carrier, Lennox, Trane, etc have to market the public? Do you know what the RPA budget is to market to consumers.

Send about 10 million to the RPA and you will see nightly, news time ads. It's an expensive proposition breaking into the 99% HVAC market.

Of course you will be ready to field a couple million call for bids, and installations when we go nationwide?

The RPA has hired a PR firm to head this direction.

Be patient small steps for small feet!

hot rod

[Deleted User]

I love hot water heat! I do service work but some times I have to change out a boiler, always pumping away and using the correct pipining to fit. The custermor knows their system. Most of them have had to live with hot air systems in their past, so they know the value of comfort. My main question is what can I do to help and keep hot water heat alive and striding? It seems to me that all the new homes are built like a package (heat and air conditioning) is the end result. The builder opps for the cheapest solution. So how do us hot water guys teach the builder to sell comfort at a higher price?

Steamhead

Builders and Economics

Since builders do not have to live in these houses, they put in whatever is cheapest and walk away. They don't have to pay the energy costs or doctor bills.

I know of at least one case where the customer wanted hydronics and the builder flatly refused to even consider it. Apparently the builder had a contract with a scorched-air contractor for all their houses.

This is one big reason why America wastes so much energy. Heat schlumps, furnasties (yes, I know some of these have high AFUE ratings but substandard installation is very common) and incandescent lights are cheap to make and install but highly inefficient to operate. And there is no incentive to change.

I know this will sound like heresy to some of you, but the government will have to get involved and set some higher standards. It took CAFE to get American manufacturers to build fuel-efficent cars. We need the same for houses.

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Mark Hunt

You hit it!!!!!!!


I worked for a company that was purchased by Lennox and I can tell you that their advertising budget is almost infinite.

I held the same opinion as the original post does here for many years until I got to see what the wet heat industry is up against.

I still wonder if some of the advertising monies spent by manufacturers in trade magazines wouldn't be better spent in some other media venues.

WM did a HUGE ad campaign many years ago and I was told that it had little effect on their sales volume.

Perhaps the "industry" needs a common voice when speaking to the general public as opposed to a group of individual manufacturers fighting eachother for a fraction of a piece of pie?

Here in New York, folks will design their comfort system around 2 or 3 months of the year (AC) and sacrifice comfort for the 8 that REALLY count here (heat).

Builders like forced air because it's cheap, homeowners like it for AC.

Question is, why do HEATING contractors like it?

Mark H

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David Efflandt

Apprehensive about freezing

I bought a 90+ year old house with 1-pipe steam, which was an unknown for me. But after experiencing it the first winter, wouldn't have it any other way.

But I would be reluctant to use hot water heat in the north unless I was sure that no pipes were in the outside walls, and holes in the joists were large enough that pipes would not constantly knock with every water temperature change.

When previously in an apartment with hydronic baseboard heating, there was so much heat from circulating pipes in floor (and knocking pipes in ceiling), and surrounding apartments, that I usually kept my heat turned down. One night the the baseboard pipe froze and burst (froze on both ends, so no water came out). From then on I had to keep the heat cranked up to keep baseboard warm, and windows open to keep from getting too hot (not too efficient).

I know there are better designed systems. But when you hear about a water main break getting into the gas mains, and taking more than a week to change thousands of frozen gas meters (or ice storms killing power), it makes you think. If I am gone for a week, I would rather not come home to an icicle.

Dale

Money could be a reason

Look at this weeks HVAC news about the contractor in AZ that has 65% of the new construction market in Pheonix SP? I was amazed at how this contractor controls costs. IMHO Too many wet heat people think the custom design hand built is the only way to go. Wet heat will get big again when the lessons of levittown are relearned and a housing development is built with a standard design and the lowest possible cost.

hot_rod

A win and a loss on CAFE

The car manufactures managed to keep SUVs in the light truck class, skipping CAFE. Trucks are, and have been outselling cars for as number of years due to this "loop hole" . As such the average gas mileage is the worse ever, including the muscle car era

So much for government looking out for gas conservation. Force the SUVs to meet CAFE, fat chance too much money at stake. SUVs happen to be real high profit dollars models for manufactures, they won't "rock that boat"

hot rod

Steamhead

Wait till

gas goes to $3.00 a gallon or so. Then you'll see these loopholes closed.

My father just came back from a trip to Iceland- regular gas is roughly $4.00 per gallon there. Same with many European countries. Most of Rejavik (spelling?) is heated by geothermal feeding a city-wide hot-water district system (there ya go, Earthfire).

We just don't value efficiency enough in America.

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hot_rod

Iceland is where

we will have to crack out the hydrogen for those "fuel cells" Apparantly an abdunance of inexpensive hydro electric and very few folks to use it Hmmmm maybe a good market for electric automobiles!

hot rod

Henry_9

The market

is slowly changing, but simple economics states that you cannot really force a market. One can educate / advertise at the level that he can afford and slowly one reaps.

Build a better mouse trap...then be patient. While you are waiting, prepare yourself with the best knowledge available so that when the chance comes, you shine.

"In times of peace, prepare for war"
Sir Winston Churchill

Thanks,

Henry

VI Midwest