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Munchkin vs Vitogas 100

Henry_9
Henry_9 Member Posts: 57
in THE MAIN WALL
to tons of fun!!
Fortunantly for the V team, the equipment does not dance, but it does a very nice job of heating.

Smart, efficient, attractive and clean....three characteristics of a good stri....... hydronic heating system.

Thanks,

Henry

VI Midwest

Comments

  • jim_51
    jim_51 Member Posts: 69
    Munchkin vs Vitogas 100

    My dealer is telling me that because I have a copper tubed fin baseboard I should go with the Vitogas 100 vs the Munchkin because I need high heat output and will get better effiency at higher output than lower temps.. I also am planning on putting a 80G indirect hot water heater on system. Any comments or suggestions. Does one like the other better.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    uhhh


    That statement makes no sense.

    You can reset a baseboard system and use lower water temps just like ANY other system.

    Baseboard has different outputs at different temperatures, so on a 50 degree day you may only require 100 degree water as opposed to the -10 degree day when you will need 180 degree water.

    If a dealer said that to me, I would know he was trying to get me to buy the more expensive system.

    Ask your dealer what he knows about heat loss and reset control strategy.

    I bet you get a blank stare.

    Mark H

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  • jim_51
    jim_51 Member Posts: 69
    Vitola 200 vs VitoGas

    the dealer is trying to get me to take the vitogas 100 vs the vitola 200 stating that the vitogas will have higher output because of fin baseboard and the vitola would be overkill and run at lesser temp.
  • pjb_2
    pjb_2 Member Posts: 2
    nonsense

    Don't deal with that guy again.

    Do a heatloss and hire a Pro.

  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
    I should start by saying......

    that I am a Viessmann contractor and feel these are the best heating equipment available. Comparing the Munchkin to the Vitogas is apples to oranges. One is a condensing unit the other is a cast iron boiler. Personally, I would opt for the Vitogas, but that's because of my initial statement. If you want to compare apples to apples(?), look at the Vitodens vs. the Munchkin. I would choose the Vitola 200 over either the Vitodens or the Munchikin unless you have designed your fin tube for 150° or lower, which is doubtful, then I would choose the Vitodens. Why run any condensing boiler at 170°? None of them can condense at that high of a temperature. If it comes down to the Vitogas or the Munchkin, opt for the Vitogas.

    Like I said, I am completely jaded and biased towards Viessmann.

    hb

    www.climatecadvanced.com

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  • jim_51
    jim_51 Member Posts: 69
    Let me clarify.

    Heatboy

    Thanks

    I am leaning towards the viessmann. Here is the latest in my saga. The local dealer has just taken on the Viessmann and is a Munchkin dealer also..... He wants to put in a Viessmann as he is blown away by the technology and quality. I would be his first. (Makes me a little nervous) This will be a replacement boiler for a old 120k Burnahm 25 year old. I have copper tube fin baseboard nothing fancy. Am not going to add any more.. Just a new boiler with a 80 Gallon Indirect hot water heater. The Manufacture's rep is telling me that the Vitola 200 would be overkill and I should step down to the vitogas 100... I do not know if he is correct or if one would be more efficient than the other He believes that I just need high heat output.

    Hope this helps. Please advise.

    Thanks much
    Jim
  • Michael B
    Michael B Member Posts: 179
    Jim

    chiming in from the Midwest here. You keep on mentioning "high temp". Both the Vitogas and the Vitola can be equiped with a KW2 weather responsive control that will control domestic as well as reset your baseboard. The Vitola is pretty much bomb-proof with no low limit where as the Vitogas can reset down to around 125 degrees. Both the Vitogas and Vitola work best in an atmospheric application so.....I agree with Heatboy that the Vitogas is the way to fly on this one.

    Michael Bleier
    Able Distributors
    www.abledistributors.com
    "The Supplier That Works With You"
  • Bob_9
    Bob_9 Member Posts: 42
    Viessmann

    Jim,
    I have installed a few of the Vitogas 100 boilers in both cast iron rad. and copper fin-tube. In all cases, these systems are set-up with outdoor reset. Low limit on the Vitogas 100 is actually around 110f and normally these systems don't see these low of temps. ( here in the midwest)
    On a fintube system where you'll see 170 - 180 degree temps required on the coldest days of the year use the Vitogas 100. The Vitola is better suited for low temp radiant systems. Yes, all of the technology is great but, there are different style Viessmanns made to fit different applications.
    If you are comfortable with your contractor, go for it. Be patient and understand that the tech support from Viessmann is awesome and can coach him through any questions that may arrise.
    Good luck.
    Bob
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Hey


    never mind.

    Viessmann is the only boiler on the face of the planet. Anything else is junk.

    Burnham, Weil-Mclain, Peerless, HTP, Buderus, LAARS, Lochinvar, Slant/Fin,.............

    All junk.

    Right Viessmann guys?

    Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Bolter!

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • Michael B
    Michael B Member Posts: 179
    Wow

    such hostility...? Whatsamater been losing jobs to "Viessmann guys" lately? As the old saying goes," don't knock it till ya try it".

    Michael Bleier
    Able Distributors
    www.abledistributors.com
    "The Supplier That Works With You"
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    I hear Mark

    loud and clear. The installation quality is more important than the boiler make.

    IMO you may be leaning a little towards over-complexity for a simple bb job.

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  • Joel_3
    Joel_3 Member Posts: 166
    Viessmann

    I think there are two trains of thought going here that need to be addressed. To the H.O. The Vitola 200 is a boiler with no low temp limit and can be oil or gas fired it has more features and is more exspensive than the Vitogas 100. Both of these boilers can use various versions of Viessmanns weather responsive control and both can be reset for lower water temps. In MHO the Vitogas is probably the correct investment as you can reset it on your baseboard and will do everything you would need which is why the Rep refered to the vitola 200 as overkill. The other boiler they make in gas is the Vitodens 200 a wall hung gas boiler that is fully condensing at 94% a totaly different animal than the first two that you mentioned. Some of the people commenting in this thread do not know the differences between these models and the various controlls. we've sold Viessmann for 12years and sell some of the other brands to and yes, "there is no substitute" I have customers who have moved in those 12 years and we go to the new house and put Viessmann in that one to. They won't live with anything else, it's that good.

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  • Joel_3
    Joel_3 Member Posts: 166
    Mark

    No those boilers you mentioned aren't junk and I sell a few of those lines and have good results with them. That being said they are not a Viessmann. A Honda accord is a great car in it's price range but it's not a Mercedes C class now is it? They both have 4doors and 4 tires and are about the same size. Honda started the Acura line to compete with Mercedes /BMW. Toyota/Lexus Nissan/Infiniti , see a trend here? Is the Honda dealer going to say the Acura is a rip off because it costs more? Nope, because he knows if he did he'd look stupid. Is the Acura dealer going to call the Honda a junk box? Nope, because he knows that in it's price class the Honda is a great value. Boilers are the exact same way! Sell multiple lines to meet the needs of your customer!

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  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
    Overkill, maybe.

    I have more than a couple of Vitola boilers hooked to baseboard systems and they work flawlessly. From a combustion/emissions stand point, the power burner on the Vitola is much more efficient and environmentally friendly than the atmospheric burners, which may or may not mean anything to some people. That plus the more efficient heat exchanger design certainly make it a viable option for baseboard systems. Even fan coils would benefit from the Vitola's high mass long on-off burn times, while keeping the heat in the boiler instead of up the flue and in the boiler room.

    hb

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

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  • jim_51
    jim_51 Member Posts: 69
    vitola vs vitogas

    Thanks Bob

    We live in Northern WI. Gets pretty darn cold here.... It looks like most are advising us to go with the Vitogas 100 over the Vitola 200 with a Vitronic control. Am I correct?
  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
    Both will work, but........

    the Vitola is the better selection, albiet a higher initial investment on your part. The Vitotronic is a good choice no matter which of these two fine units you select, Jim.

    hb

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  • radiant
    radiant Member Posts: 20
    viessmann

    Mark H. You just hit the nail right on the head.
  • Wayco Wayne
    Wayco Wayne Member Posts: 615
    Yo Mark

    Thanks for the good laugh. Ach du lieber! WW

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  • Bob_9
    Bob_9 Member Posts: 42


    > Thanks Bob

    >

    > We live in Northern WI. Gets

    > pretty darn cold here.... It looks like most are

    > advising us to go with the Vitogas 100 over the

    > Vitola 200 with a Vitronic control. Am I correct?



  • Bob_9
    Bob_9 Member Posts: 42


    Lets look at the job. We have copper fin tube and domestic hot water. Both have high temperature requirements. Yes, we want to reset the baseboard temp bases on outdoor temp.
    The Vitogas is cast iron but can accept lower return temps than most other boilers thereby giving us a great range in which to operate on outdoor reset with baseboard while having no problem running @ 180 to produce DHW.
    The Vitola is a beautiful boiler and if we were talking about having some low temp infloor I'd say install a Divicon for the low temp stuff, pipe the rest into the boiler for high temp and go for it.
    How far north are you?
    Bob
  • Dana Zaichkin_11
    Dana Zaichkin_11 Member Posts: 2
    Oh Oh...

    Car analogies again. Danger, Danger Will Robinson....

    Actually, forget the Accord - I'll take a Civic over the Mercedes any day.

    DZ
  • jim_51
    jim_51 Member Posts: 69
    Eagle River,WI

    Bob

    We live in the Eagle River, WI area. Are you saying the vitogas would be the better choice over the Vitola for my situation?
  • Ted_5
    Ted_5 Member Posts: 272
    High temp of 190F

    Jim,
    You forgot to mention that we thought your system may need 190F at design conditions. That told me your baseboard might be under sized? We will do a heatloss on the house to make sure that is the case. At that time we can talk over which boiler is right with in the Viessmann line. If
    your baseboard is under sized that means the temps can't go as low as some systems. The Vitogas can go down to 110F but if we find out we could run lower return temps the Vitola would be a better choice. I agree with Heatboy, it is the best low temp noncondencing boiler in the world and we can get you a price on the Vitola vs. Vitogas and then talk over benifits and features of both. I did not say that
    all other boilers are junck!!! I just give you information
    about the Viessmann product so you can make up your own mind.

    Ted
  • jim_51
    jim_51 Member Posts: 69
    Comment

    I don't know who said all other boilers are junk. It wasn't you or I as you can see from all the posts. I do not know where you got that Idea.
  • Steve Ebels
    Steve Ebels Member Posts: 904
    Jim

    As you can see from several of the posts, system temp has a LOT to do with efficiency and operating costs. It would likely be worth some investigation to see if you could lower your system temp. Start with a thorough heat loss and see if you have enough baseboard to lower your water temp. If you don't, it would be worth adding some additional to allow water temps in the 150* or less range. Then with a reset control you could take full advantage of a Munchkin or that Vitola that most here lust after.
  • Henry_9
    Henry_9 Member Posts: 57
    ...Vitola that most here lust after

    I love it, boilers and sex appeal. And my wife thought I was just looking at shiney silver boxes.

    Henry
    VI Midwest
  • steve_26
    steve_26 Member Posts: 82
    Vitola lust

    Lust!You haven't experienced anything till one gives you a Lap dance..Go Vitola..
This discussion has been closed.

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