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HeavyP Member Posts: 52
the discussion was deleted. I guess if you say things people dont agree with they delete the thread. Oh well such is life. I guess Mark H. is right and I am wrong.


  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,293

    Hector, I took down the thread about moonlighting because it was getting nasty. The Wall is a special place where posters act professionally and show a lot of respect for each other. We don't call each other names. This is especially important because of the huge amount of homeowners that read the Wall each day. We have about 3,000 visitors each day, and so many of them are lay people who come here to get a sense of what's what. Many of
    these homeowners then hire the pros who post. Like I said, it's a special place.

    I'm taking the time to tell you this because you're new to the Wall and you may be thinking that this place is like other bulletin boards. It's not.

    Mark Hunt has a fire in his belly, as do you, but I've never known him to make racist remarks. No one knew of your Spanish heritage until you mentioned it in the post where you called him a racist. I know that it was the heat of the moment, and it's okay because we're all just human, but we don't do that on the Wall, Hector. When I see it, I just take it down and we all move on. It's how we maintain the high level of professionalism here. It's the face we need to show the public.

    The thing about the Wall is that no one knows whether the other person is black, white, Hispanic, Asian, disabled, old, young. Everyone rises and falls on the level of their maturity, professionalism and respect for others. It's a level playing field, Hector, and we have a very good thing

    I welcome your passion and your participation, but I'm asking you, as a mature professional, to refrain from the name-calling. Thanks for understanding, and for your cooperation.

    And I tried to email this to you earlier today but it bounced back as an invalid email address. You might want to check that. Thanks.
    Retired and loving it.
  • HeavyP
    HeavyP Member Posts: 52

    My only point to him was that just because someone works for a company and takes care of his OWN customers when he is done with his job doesnt mean he is not qualified. Nor does it mean that he robs his bosses customers, which was insinuated. I see from the posts here that Mark knows his stuff, I never said he didnt. He can not tell me that as soon as he disagreed with the way his old bosses did things he opened his own shop and immediatley the phone didnt stop ringing. Everyone has to build there business at step 1, and the only way I see that is to start from square one with your first customer. If there is a way to leave your employer without already having "some" clients (not your employers) I did it the wrong way. You have to first establish yourself with your own clients and then open your own shop. Furthermore I NEVER STOLE ANY OF MY OLD BOSSES CLIENTS. I didnt mean to rile everyone up but I guess I misunderstood something along the way.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,293
    Well said.

    Let there be peace in the valley.

    Welcome to the community we call the Wall, Hector. We're glad you're here.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Dale
    Dale Member Posts: 1,317
    Nicely said Dan

    I like the ability to disagree without personal attack. Sort of the difference between the US house of representatives and the US Senate. I heard a doctor on NPR yesterday say his med school dean tells the new students that 1/2 of what you learn here will later be proved wrong, we just don't know which half. His message was that research and technology constantly changes the "truth" and that we all must be open to change and willing to keep learning. Hard to be willing to change and learn if the discussion gets personal in a negative way and to me the positive way builds the community here.
  • John Ruhnke1
    John Ruhnke1 Member Posts: 154
    I moonlighted.............


    I started my business the same way you are doing it. I first served my apprenticship by working for others. I then started taking on side jobs at nights and weekends for family, friends and neighbors. Word spread and soon I was working every weekend. Like you I NEVER did work for one of my boss's clients. I built up my own business. I was honest about the whole thing. I told my boss what I was doing and made sure it was alright with him. I didn't tell him I planned to start my own business though. I just told him that I wanted to do some moon lighting. I had my own personal tools and accounts at the supply houses. I NEVER used my boss's material, not even if I just needed a simple 50 cent hose washer. He liked my honesty and though he would have rather had me not moon light, he let me do it. After 6 years I was laid off. I was out of work at that time and moon lighting full time. I had gotten laid off of work when my company was going through hard times. They never recovered and went out of business a year later. The moon lighting was very valuable to me. It kept money coming in while I was unemployed. In fact after a while I was making more money moon lighting then I did working for my old boss. I then applied for and took the contractors test. Once I passed the test, I registered my own business. That date was June 6 1990. On June 6 1990 I went from a unemployed moon lighter to a Full time Plumbing and Heating Contractor. I never looked back. The business is still going strong today.

    I know Mark Hunt and he is a geat guy. You can learn a lot from him. Mark Hunt is right when he talks about how expensive it is to run a Contracting company. It is very very expensive. You have to charge a lot to make ends meet. Often a begining business doesn't realize all of the costs. They charge way to little. Mark can't compete against these new companies and moon lighters. He has a family to care for, college for the kids to think about. I can't compete against these low bidders either. Noone has respect for low ball bidders around here. I know I don't. So if you are going to moon light, please charge enough. Your clients will be glad to pay for it, If you present yourself professionally. The person that hires low ball bidders has no respect for us hard working trades people. They have friends who feel the same way. By charging to little you will build a clientel of cheap scates. You will never make any money ever. Charge right, present yourself profesionally and build up a clientel that respects you for who you are and is willing to pay you well for it.

    Check out my web site if you want, www.ComfortableHeat.com.

    JOhn Ruhnke
    [email protected]

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • Jim Walls
    Jim Walls Member Posts: 49
    Med school

    Dale, thank you for sharing that comment from the Dean. My employer is fond of saying, true learning, is the ability to unlearn, and then learn a new system,task,process etc......... not sure where he picked this up, but I find it to have some merit,,,Have you ever tried to teach pre-fab to plumbers with 20 years experience without using it?
    Or tried to get estimators to learn a different computer based take off system? Old dog , new trick kind of thing,even if it's a young dog :-)
  • HeavyP
    HeavyP Member Posts: 52

    The days of moonlighting are over for me. I am licensed,insured, bonded etc. I pay the company's health insurance, workmans comp, truck insurance, liability ins, as well as an umbrella policy. I am well aware of the cost of doing business, I have been in business since 1999 and could never go back to working for somebody as I now have more time for the wife and family.John, I am glad that someone understands where i'm coming from.
  • Dale
    Dale Member Posts: 1,317
    View of mistakes

    As I get older I see myself more resistant to change, one of the things I like about residential steam heat is the managable level of change. What I believe is critical to accepting change is a companies or families I guess, culture that mistakes are how we learn and an OK and even good predictor of future success. If a mistake has a high personal cost and anything new means a learning curve then new things will be avoided. One of the things I like about this site is it seems to attract those who are willing to try new things.
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