Panel radiator article in Fuel Oil News

Mike T., Swampeast MO

"Continuos circulation has been talked about for years, but for some reason or another most contractors shy away from the idea, maybe becuase they have to think about systems in a diff. way. Outdoor-reset, TRV's, PBV's have a way of turning the common guy away from C.C."

It DOES take a bit of a leap but you make a MUCH greater leap every time you drive a car and assume that the other drivers aren't out there to kill you!

p.s. Greg, VERY GOOD WRITING!!!!

hot_rod

Talks about

installation and control options. Some tips from Tom Olds, ME's partner. It mentions the Dianorm brand, with some nice connection features.

The article worked! I ordered a sample Dianorm from Able Distribitors today to show customers as an option to radiant floors!

Paste this link for thr FON article

http://www.petroretail.net/fon/2003/0307/0307rad.asp

hot rod

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Maximizing radiation via steel panels

The constant circulation and TRVs are the ESSENCE of maximizing the radiation.

While a "perfect" reset curve that results in nearly constant circulation IS possible with a digitally controlled system, subtle, unexpected changes can throw all of your careful calculations out of whack.

It is that state of "maintenance" where BTUs going into a space nearly pefectly equals BTUs going out that is so valuable and it's only properly achieved with proportional control. Once that state is reached, whatever device or object is supplying the heat to the space will be at a MINIMUM temperature and MAXIMUM radiation.

Like iron radiators, steel panels have a convective/radiative proportion that CHANGES. The convective portion is good for quickly raising space temperature--thus the reason you want some "headroom" in your reset curve. Steel panels will though tend to liberate their heat more rapidly to a space than iron rads so you have less of a "flywheel effect" when they are in operation--thus the reason you REALLY want constant circulation.

Particularly if you have incorporated reset into the constant circulation you have a ready-made and simple-to-use source of variable temperature water that is quite easy to introduce into radiant panels (floors, walls, etc.). If you pay particular attention to the method you choose to transfer heat to the radiant panel, this can be done without any further control measures--that elegantly simple thing I like to call "super-simple radiant."

This type of system really would be ideal with solid fuel as solid fuel boilers are proportional as well. By regulating draft and depth of the fuel, such a boiler will have variable output. NEVER forget that proportional hot water systems have existed since the 1890s and proportional steam (in the form of vapor) shortly thereafter. Unfortunately though, these old systems seem to have relied somewhat on the variable nature of the solid-fuel boilers of the time and once digital boilers became the norm many "forgot" the wonderful nature of proportional control for the sake of simple wall thermostats.

We now seem to have gone "full-circle" as happens so often. Proportional fire boilers are again available, but using non-solid fuel. While you can certainly build efficient and comfortable systems without this type of boiler, they stand to have MUCH to gain by using proportional fire as well.

Unknown

Well said

What a grasp of heating dynamics you have, and what a pleasant read it is. Keep writing, Mike. You do well.

Noel

doug_10

thanks for the link

I just read the article. It is an exciting time to be in
the heating business!!! Caleffi controls, DiNorm radiators, Viessmann Boilers, I can go on for days...

Michael Bleier
Able Distributors
www.abledistributors.com
"The Supplier That Works With You"

Mike T., Swampeast MO

The dynamics

AREN'T DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND--REALLY!!!!

It's EVER more difficult (for me at least) to try to figure out what happens in a space controlled by digital means. Why? Because you never really achieve that level of MAINTENANCE where everything essentially "springs" into balance.

With digital control it is the SPACE that winds up being dynamic, even chaotically so; with proportional control the FLOW is what is dynamic, but without the chaos. You still DESIGN in much the same way (for maximum heat loss), but since the end result is NOT chaos the system itself actually becomes simpler!

The chaos in a digital system is caused by the CONSTANT AND UNPREDICTABLE AND HIGH fluctuation of space temperature. Proportional control can reduce this fluctuation to the point that you can safely assume constancy during maintenance.

Anyone who has engineered or felt a well-functioning radiant panel system understands this with their senses--you've just let the mass of the system remove the chaos. Proportional flow does the exact same thing with MUCH less mass.

"Free your mind and the rest will follow." [The original N-Sync, I believe.]

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Chaos

Weather represents the best form of chaos that we are all familiar with.

It cannot be disproven that a butterfly flapping its wings in Canada eventually results in a typhoon in Bangladesh!

MUCH more "understandable" though (but still chaotic) is a tornado in central Florida "spawned" by a hurricane hitting the coast.

Think of the butterfly-typhoon thing as a digital, convective heating system and the tornado-hurricane thing as proportional and radiative.

Greg Gibbs

What comes around goes around..

Continuos circulation has been talked about for years, but for some reason or another most contractors shy away from the idea, maybe becuase they have to think about systems in a diff. way. Outdoor-reset, TRV's, PBV's have a way of turning the common guy away from C.C. As Mike said C.C. is simple after you understand the systems.
I'm a huge fan of the WALL, however as I explained to Noel
earlyer today, I have four kids @ Home (and a wife) & they get all of my attn. @ night. My hat is off to all of you WALLIES, I learn all kinds of stuff when I visit.
I spoke to Dave Cambell @ FON about writing a follow up story on C.C. hopefully they will allow me to do it.
Mark E and Tom Olds have a rather large commercial job coming up with panel rads, it will be C.C. -It would make a great story.

I'm also looking forward to the "Wild West" Wetstock. I will register soon. Greg Gibbs

hot_rod

You did a fine job, Greg

on this article and topic. Forgot to mention you in my first post. Hope to see more of your "stuff" Is FON is paying you the big bucks

hot rod

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Greg Gibbs

Wild West

Out here in the Wild West we call it "GRABBING THE BULL BY THE HORNS" Sometimes you just have to try new things,'cept
C.C. is not a new thing. Thanks Mike, gotta go home to the little miss' and the youngns now. Greg

Greg Gibbs

Thanks

Thank you Hot Rod...Greg