Speaking of Electrical inspectors

Steve Ebels

A job where we did the heating was shot down by the local sparky inspector this week. He red tagged the wiring because it ran through the joist bays along with our underfloor tubing. Specifically, we have loops of pex suspended in the joist bays for floor warming, insulated under the pex of course. As is always the case, some of the joist bays also contain wiring. He threw a fit about that and red tagged the electricians work. I've never run into this B4. Has anyone else had this situation and what was done about it? Anyone know of some info I could pass along to the inspector to put his mind at ease about this?

Thanks

Tony Conner

Ask Him...

... (nicely) to show you, specifically, in the code book, where this is prohibited. If he can do it, then he's right. If he CAN'T, well, then he can't really tag it, can he?

Steve Ebels

Yes and No

At the end of about every code book that I've seen it says, "Subject to local inspectors approval". Gives him an awful amount of power.

John Abbott

Electrical Inspector

> At the end of about every code book that I've

> seen it says, "Subject to local inspectors

> approval". Gives him an awful amount of power.

Steve Eayrs

It is within your rights to request

where the code is in the book. He not a dictator, but a public official. It is his job to inforce the code, not some personal preference. If he won't listen to you, go to his boss. They have to tell you where the code is located. This is also within your rights.

If you are right, and they reverse teh decision, you will gain their respect, unless hes a real jerk.

I personally have not ran into this before, so I don't know the answer.

Steve

John Abbott

Electrical Inspector

I happen to be an electrician as well as a plumber/heating guy. I cannot think of any provision in the electrical code that prohibits the type of installation you describe.The only reason I can think of that he might use is the prohibition of running of romex in areas that are used an area used primarily for handling environmental air such as an area above a suspended ceiling used as a return air plennum.A radiant heating system is clearly not such an area.As some one properly advised ask the inspector to cite the code section that prohibits this type of installation.
If I can be of help please contact me .

John

J. Cahill

Inspector

Steve, It could be a legit concern depending on where the wires are in relationship to your tubing and what temp your tubing is running at .The insulation temp is probably the issue and he/she may be a sharp inspector for picking up on this.As a licensed electrician for over 20 years I have not seen to many inspectors that would put 2+2 like this.

Paul Cooke

Electrical Wiring and PEX

I am wondering if there is anything specific in the electrical code about the proximity of romex and any pipe carrying hot water.

There must be several million miles of romex in attics where summertime temperatures can exceed what we might find in a heated joist space.

Check out this link I found.

Paul

http://www.codecheck.com/fundamentals/electricity/ampacity.html

Boilerpro_3

I was thinking the same thing, but

Most modern electrical wiring for interior use is rated at least for 75C (167F) or 90C (194F). So unless the wire is in direct contact with the tubing, I doubt the wiring will ever get this warm. However, it is something to keep in mind during installs.

Boilerpro

Mike Lampkin_2

Correction factors to wiring tables

If your electrical code is the same as the Ontario Electrical Safety Code, the inspector may have made his
decision based on the ambient temperature of the space
where the wiring is located. The wiring tables in the code
are based on an ambient temperature of 30*C. For example,
Table 2 shows a 14AWG with an allowable ampacity of 15 amps
at an ambient temperature of 30*C. For higher ambient
temperatures, you have to use Table 5A which gives a
correction factor to Table 2. For example, at 40*C the
wire would be de-rated by a factor of .9 which would only
allow 13.5 amps for that circuit. At 50*C, the factor is .8
which now only allows 12 amps on that same circuit. So, as
you can see, the higher the joist bay temperature, the more
the wire becomes de-rated. I try to keep my wiring out of
the heated space or else you can run heavier wire (12AWG)
to get around the problem, since 12 AWG allows 20 amps at
ambient 30*C. Let's say you have 50*C in your joist bay,
factor .8 X 20= 16 amps total that you are allowed to run
on that circuit. This is an issue that many radiant
contractors are not aware of. Hope this helps. I wanted to mention that I am also an electrical contractor in the
province of Ontario.