Turning around builders

J.C.A.

I think Tom Meyer is on to something here ! Weed out the uninteresed first, then sell to the interested guys.

There is no doubt in my mind that cost will be the biggest issue . Sell the builder on comfort and quality and the money will not be too far behind . Someone who wants to sell a quality job is far more important than the "nail bangers" that want to get in and get out .

I also like the idea of getting some of the realitors in there . While your at it , why not get a home inspector or 2 ? They are the people that will be selling /checking the systems in a home .The more they know , the better your chances will be . (Home inspectors are notorious for condemning anything they don't understand , so I think it would be a great time to initiate them !) Best of luck Chuck . I hope you rope em' . See ya Thursday. Chris

chuck shaw

Builders Seminar

I was asked by a local supply house to help set up an informal meeting for local builders to help explain the benefits of radiant heating, and the different types of installation methods. I would really like the area I will be speaking about, benefits, comfort and installation to sound really profesional. I would also like to be able to help explain cost differance, as I am sure this will be a major area of concern to them. Does anyone have any words of advice? Has anyone given a presentation of this type in the past?

Thanks in advance

Chuck Shaw

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Mark Hunt

WHEW!!!!


I want to see some of the posts to this one.

That is one tuff nut to crack Chuck, and I don't have the ultimate answer.

I have tried many different approaches and none works better than the other.

I would first try to find the biggest reasons that builders DO NOT offer radiant systems to their customers and then take those reasons on one at a time.

"Too much money" is the most common that I get and I handle it by telling the builder that he does not have to sell it, I WILL. I sell radiant, he sells houses. If a customer mentions an interest in radiant, let me talk to them. At least get it on the table as an option.

I am sure you'll get more "reasons" from the builders, but selling them is no different than selling anyone else. Find the negatives, and shoot them down with the facts.

Good luck!!!!!

Mark H



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joel_14

hmm

I guess i agree with the above post you sell to whatever your audience is.

I'd add however that this depends on your biulder and it doesn't matter if it's radiant or not.

If you are talking about Mass production biulders that put up multiple house than why even bother??
It's a waste of your time. We do basic baseboard or hot air systems as well as radiant and i can't sell apples to apples to those guys, let alone move up to radiant.
We do hot air right. Which means good furnace , sealed and well insulated ductwork , multiple returns etc. That alone makes us 100% uncompetitive.
I guess my point is any good contractor probably doesn't work for biulders of production homes at all no matter what type of system it is. Those guys will always hack up the hidden stuff so they can put another 10k into granite counters. It's just a lost cause.
Now custom biulders are a different story and we work with several of them. If they come than you can get some good relationships going. In that market it doesn't matter to the biulder what the cost is. The guys I work with leave the heat and A/c price out of the basic house bid. Then I sit down with the owners and do what they want and the biulder gets a cut. Everybody is happy, the biulder has his money and he knows I take care of any questions and problems. The owners happy because they know they are getting what they pay for, I'm happy because I can typically sell a much better system. So if those guys come your all set. If it's the first group just give them the number of your compition.!

Bob Bona_4

the

hurdle to overcome is "what's in it for me?"

Builders see radiant as a PIA. They see it as a disruption to their already unrealistic schedules. They see it as extra planning in floor heights. They see it as a hassle for the floor guys to be careful. And of course, they see it as too expensive..

Well, boo hoo. My heart just breaks for them. They have no problem building a 50K portico, and nobody blinks an eye..

When they can actually care about a quality home that starts from the core, read mechanicals, and not just prostitute fancy, relatively temporary doo dads like granite counters, nickel faucets, Wolf 8 burner stoves and the like upon homebuyers, then we can get somewhere. If they can care about how the end user actually feels inside their home instead of slapping up 2x's, and show the buyer that they care, then we can get somewhere.

If we can convince builders that we are here to make the buyer happy, and the buyer is happy with warm floors, maybe the light bulb will go off.."I'm building a house that's a cut above the rest. I can sell it as such. I can make a few bucks too. I see people driving Lexus'es when a Kia will do the same job. Why is that?"

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Jack Smith

Builders

are not all the same. That's a given! We are starting to turn around our builders here in the Buffalo area. Custom builders are doing entire homes, or entire floors, or sometimes just those problem surfaces( tile, hardwood, etc.). Sell the customer what they need and what they can afford combined. Try just the tiled baths or maybe those rooms over the garage or just the basement slab, start small. Offer to due one of those problem rooms in a model at no charge. Be creative and be flexible, do not get frustrated, they are builders not comfort technicians!

Tom Meyer

An idea...

Depending on how many people you have attending, try this:

At the beginning of your presentation, hand out index cards which are blank on both sides. Ask them to print on the top of one side "WHY?" and the other side "WHY NOT?"

Have them put one reason for why they might use radiant and on the other one reason they don't.

Collect them up, then ask them to introduce themselves to the group. If you ask them to just introduce themselves, they will talk to you and want you to maintain eye contact. If you ask them to introduce themselves to the group, invariably they will look at the group.

While they are doing that you can look through them quickly, while you are listening to their introductions.

Reading the cards gives you the keypoints to your presentation.

If it's a small group, you can have them answer those questions during their introductions.

Senior Designer/Trainer
Precision Hydronics Corporation
www.precisionhydronics.com

ScottMP

Good for you Chuck

Its a tough battle and I give you credit for trying.

I thinks its percieved value and the builders believe the customers wants granite counter tops more than radiant. I agree to get them to try it in the master bath. Get them to understand how that will help sell the house and they are hooked. Be a pusher, give them alittle to taste.

By the way Chuck, get the supplier to provide a decent lunch. That wil guarantee a large attendance.

Go Get Em

Scott

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Mi39ke_2

BBB Builders

IMO, the starting point is always, "who butters your bread?"

Do these builders consider themselves to be serving their client, the homeowner?

An emphasis on consumer advocacy in an age where IAQ, energy efficiency, and extreme comfort are issues that consumers are actually becoming knowledgeable about can be a powerful message (and commitment) to deliver.

Keep bringing home the point about consumer awareness in the information age. The builder who solves problems and provides opportunities will gain the referrals, IMO. Seen it before, see it everyday.

Ask them how long their tyical client lives in the home they build. If it is a short time, no doubt a quality system will be a hard sell. Long term homes deserve consideration for superior systems.

Make them aware that consumers will plunk down $40k for an automobile every three years, but are often told they cannot afford a quality mechanical system for a lifetime investment.

Make them think about "living within the distribution system." Living with a forced air system is in reality, living within the system...you are merely standing in a larger portion of the air distribution system...you are in contact with the heat exchanger, evap coil, dirty filters, etc., just by your presence within the home. Yuck. But I am a bit biased. [grin]

Mi39ke

Boilerpro_3

I'd say speak to thier wallet

Yes, radiant is more expensive than out of date hot air combo systems, but the more expensive the home, the bigger their profit is since the usually figure a percentage of the cost of the home as thier profit. Right?

Boilerpro

eleft_4

builders

Try to get the realtors involved, they compare $ per sq ft. Get them interested in the benefits and they could help sell the idea to the builder if they knew also.

al

hot_rod

It's always worth a shot

to convert any builder to the world of radiant. I start in small increments also. Focus on bathroom walls & floors. Really it comes down to what the OWNER wants, not what the builder likes A true builder would present options and listen to the owners wants and needs!

The RPA has some good info for builders, and a slide show presentation. The Radiant Flooring Guide would be an excellent piece to get into the hands of every builder in attendence. (with your card attached of course) Nothing like nice, well written stories and glossy pics of real installs! Next best thing to actually walking on a warm radiant floor.

hot rod

MURPH'

show them your nuts!!........

About radiant heat. And never leave them see you sweat!!



you will do fine, see if you can add testimonials from some warm comfy folks, and there are options with the applications that cannot be brought to the table with conventional heeters!!



Murph'(SOS)

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Finding a receptive audience

WON'T BE EASY! In a mixed group of home builders you're going to have to tread a VERY thin line between greatly offending the "build it big, build it fast, build it glitzy" crowd while letting those truly concerned with building quality know that such can help them be fully head and shoulders above the pack!

I think it important that you stress the experience (and art) required for a comfortable, LONG-LASTING radiant system. Statements from contractors (your crew gets along, works on schedule, etc.) are likely to be as--or even more--important than statements from satisfied homeowners.

Let them know at least part of the myriad of options available with hydronics and that costs can be minimized somewhat with little sacrifice in comfort, reliability and efficiency. (Careful planning and an appropriate marriage of boiler to emission devices(s)/control system is the key to this.)

Show them the MANY ways a single home can be heated hydronically from extravagant to basic and how careful planning makes ALL more comfortable and efficient than even the best forced air! Don't forget to stress the incredible comfort of PROPORTIONAL CONTROL. Let them know that such is nearly impossible with air, yet PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED can ACTUALLY INCREASE RELIABILTY AND SIMPLIFY THE ENGINEERING!

While only time will tell regarding the reliability of condensing boilers, do let them know that a system utilizing TRV'd panel radiators mixed with radiant in areas most appropriate (baths/laundry/kitchen, etc) offers great comfort, unsurpassed control, incredible efficiency all the while keeping costs and system complixity minimized.

Art Pittaway

Gather and go to the customer

You have a wholesaler that wants to sell more hydronics, and your interested in more business. A nice way to develop customer pull-thru is to show them. If you have a good home show in your area, set up a "Hydronic Information" booth. No pushy sales pitch, just information. We did it here for several years (Northern Illinois is NOT hydronics turf)and involved several contractors. Answered questions from,"can I paint my baseboard covers", to who can install a whole house radiant system. Show the towel warmers, etc. Several nice jobs came out of it, a lot of awareness of hydronics. Today a few contractors still show boilers, one remodler does very well with radiant but most builders will go back to the statis-quo if someone doesn't beat the drum.
Best of luck to you over the next few years because it can be that kind of a commitment. Art