Spacepak, Unico or Hi-Velocity?

Brian (Tankless) Wood · May 2003

I'm depending completely on you guys for input on this one.

My freind/attorney/neighbour, her husband, and the GC, are 99% convinced that mini-duct is the way to go on the remodel of their new/old office.

I've read 100's of posts on this topic, and so far, they are really neck & neck.

Spacepak offers pre-insulated 9" main ductwork, which means less labour costs for installation. So, at this point Spacepak is ahead.

I really value all of your opinions, and would like input as soon as possible.

I met with the GC (also an old freind) just 30 min's ago, he said I may have an answer as early as Monday, if I can convince him & Jenny, that the price difference can be offset by lower bills, better comfort/control, and speed of installation (very tight deadline).

Thanks in advance, y'all.

Brian in Swampland.

Mike T., Swampeast MO · May 2003

I've only worked with (and felt) Unico BUT those using Spacepak report excellent comfort and reliability as well. If you're referring to the Canadian "High-Velocity" system (they say it's the original) all I know is that it is said to be built "like a tank."

Spacepak seems to have a "convenience" edge over Unico with the larger (4-5) ton evap module and had it not been for service access--a problem in the physical location of the unit in my install--I likely would have chosen Spacepak.

Judging by sizing/engineering data at their websites, Spacepak seems to be a bit less "finicky" than Unico regarding length of runs and layout of the trunk--I do not know though if this is because of differences in the systems themselves or the exceptionally detailed nature of Unico data.

The Unico website technical info (and their technical staff) are, by the way, ABSOLUTELY FIRST-RATE!

In case anyone faces a similar problem:

What do you use if you must run branch-lines cross-joist and the hole for the insulated scrim-tube is really too big? Central vacuum tube (fits Unico connectors) insulated with bubble foil--DEFINITELY NOT A FUN INSTALL and you might as well buy couplings by the case--but it works. Note that the engineer I spoke with at the actual Unico company said that just insulating up to (not actually through) the joists with foil-faced fiberglass wrapping should be OK, but due to the extremely high humidity in the area I went the "hard way" with contact cement and bubble foil.

When sizing/laying out my system I had to use a very unusual trunk layout and sent an isometric drawing to the nearest (St. Louis) Unico rep. Waited patiently for a few weeks with no reply, so made a call. Operator seemed to know my name and transferred me immediately to the company president who said, "I've been expecting you to call. Want a job?"

Pat · May 2003

mini duct systems

Never used HI V. Unico and SpacePak both great. Over the last 15 years I've installed 20+ SpacePak and 4 Unico systems. They are very expensive on the materials side, but if you lack space in an old house, the only way to go. The only reason I switched from SpacePak to Unico was my local supply house switched. Both offered great technical support and installation guides. Read the directions 1st and it will speed up time in the attic.

John Mills_3 · May 2003

ARI

Last I saw, Hi Velocity didn't ARI rate their equipment so you have no idea what capacity and SEER you'll end up with.

Greg Swob · May 2003

I have only worked with Unico, but:

Spacepak has never once answered a request for information, except to send a brochure to the office. No information submitted beyond the initial brochure, no questions answered, etc. My guess is they perhaps don't have a rep in our region. Unico on the other hand, has offered in house training at our facility, system design training and assistance, etc. And we can use the brands of Air Cond. condensors our people are already familiar with. So... as many of the wallies answer when asked of anything, "what brand should I use?" I recommend going with whomever will offer the best service before, during and after the sale. And, that's why we will use Unico. Greg

John Abbott · May 2003

Spacepak

I have installed a number of Spacepak jobs with good results.I cannot speak to the Unico or HV as I have no experience with them but the Spacepak has worked great.We have done a lot of it in conjuntion with radiant and it is a match made in heaven.The outlets are very unobtrusive and it works well if installed properly.I have found that you should install the maximum number of outlets rather than the minimum to keep the velocity and the sound levels to a minimum.Some one has said to read the instructions and they were right.This is not rocket science and the laws of physics that apply to AC are similar to those that apply to hydronics.In my opinion the Spacepak is a great system if applied and installed properly.

John

Troy_3 · May 2003

Unico all the way

We have had great success with Unico. I wouldn't shy from Space-pak if it were stocked locally. Unico is of great help. Excellent manuals. The product works great. Just don't short it. We use 6-7 outlets per ton. It really is quiet if done right. The canadian product I have looked at seriously but so far it doesn't impress me.

David_5 · May 2003

Unico

I have only installed Unico, but have serviced Space Pak. Both systems are very good. The advantage for hi velocity for us is we don't need a sheetmetal sub to do the ductwork. The material is more expensive but it goes in faster, is easier to work with, and less obtrusive. I have both coneventional duct system and hi velocity system in my house. I wish they were both hi velocity.
P.S. I suggeseted to Unico they make a gas furnace for their system.

David

Brian (Tankless) Wood · May 2003

You guys are the best.

Thanks to everyone who reponded.

I spent a fortune (well, zero, but a lot of time) on phone calls & e-mails today, to the nearest rep's. Two knew absolutely nothing about the systems they rep'd, and hadn't sold ANY (but expected to make a commission after I did a heat-loss/gain calc, designed the system, and got factory approval).

Unico-Nanimous is the the way it is. Their Southern Rep, Mike McMinn was the only one to help in the past, and the only one to offer all kinds of help today.

I wish Unico supplied pre-insulated 9" fibre-glass main duct, but we can't have everything, can we.

You guys are great, thanks again. I'll let you know how it goes.

Brian, in very, very humid Swampland.

BTW, did you see Scott Milne's beautiful Pro-Press double boiler job further down? Lots to learn, must get busy.

Ted_5 · May 2003

Add this to your list.

If you're looking to save time on installs, this will cut
labor by quite a lot. I have installed some Spacepack and
AirLink was much faster to install and less for materials.
All holes are pre cut in the distribution box. The main
plnium is precut duct board. Check it out you may like it.
It's a HeatLink product.

Ted

bo (ams) bolinsky · May 2003

Unico user

Have used both systems and probably about 60 Unico's in the last 2 years. Spacepak is good but ducting does not seem to hold up well and really dont like the duct connectors. I also like the fit of high efficiency filters to the unico housing in comparison to the SpacePak and had a very bad experience with the unmentionable third system

Brian (Tankless) Wood · May 2003

Thanks, Bo

Unico it is.

I appreciate your input.

Brian.

Floyd_3 · May 2003

9\" spiral...

wrapped with bubble wrap will make an indestructible duct for you....

I go with the Unico air handlers... they are more adaptable and make a verticle plenum adapter with a great filter rack....spiral wrapped duct... if you use the 24" wide stuff and wrapp it on an angle then fold it back to make the joint...it covers perfectly and very tight....then use the Space Pak tubing .....Unico only makes their's in 25ft lengths and Space Pak goes 100'... less couplings....also the Space Pak terminations seem the be more user friendly.

Now you got my 2 cents worth.....

Floyd

John T_2 · May 2003

Steel Duct

Unico is the way to go as far as I'm concerned. We only use steel duct, wrapped on the exterior. Unico makes a nice outlet tap for this purpose. Use a 26 guage pipe and fittings, wrap with two layers of foil faced duct wrap (easy to do on a round duct). Don't tape insulation to duct so it can be slid down duct to cover fittings and connections. Seal duct and fittings with closure tape or a high velocity sealant.

Fiberglass duct raises questions for me about it's long term integrity. If you **** or damage the exterior vapor barrier air loss will occur right through the fiberglass duct wall. Since the fiberglass portion of the duct is porous (sp) what does that say about it's r-value?

John Taylor

Custom Climate Systems, Inc.
Whitmore Lake, Michigan

Brian (Tankless) Wood · May 2003

Thanks Shurf Floyd.

I'm lucky, the building is 25'wide X 75" long. No 2" tubes longer than 15'.

Job made in heaven.

Now to pass on all these posts to the owner. No problem, she lives next door :O) Yo, Jenny, got some positive info for ya.

You guys are the best.

Sweat'n in Swampland.

Brian (Tankless) Wood · May 2003

I appreciate that, John

Thanks.

It definitely will be UNICO. Pic's will follow.

Brian in 110% humidified Swampland.

Don_2 · May 2003

Well

This tin banger still consider metal made for craftsman.
Yea I know the time are changing and time is money.
But what other benerfit other then, can go where metal can not,and it's better on humidity removal.
I can get good humidity removal with speed change of a motor. Varaible speed motor work great,also uses less wattage then a hi velocity system.
If it was my money I skip the high velocity system and spend my money on a outdoor condenser that modulate its btu,as in two stage, a better cycle efficency,and maybe even
maybe narrowing the gap on steady state efficency.
Is there such a thing??

tombig · May 2003

Fiberglass ducts

My Unico supplier has a full line of 9" and 7" fiberglass ducts and fittings. I think they're made by Manville. Not to bad to work withh and pretty tough stuff. I use spray adhesive and tape (silver, not grey or black) on the lap joints. Once you get the hang of razor knifing laps on cut sizes it goes pretty quick. I've fabricated odd angles by cutting down 90s or 45s.

Brian (Tankless) Wood · May 2003

Tom, you can bet your &%ss

I'll ask my guy about this f'glass stuff, thanks.

B in ever increasingly humid Swampland.

tombig · May 2003

Fiberglass ducts again

I come out of the air handler with 9". Then a 7x9x7(bullhead) with turning vane to a dogleg or preferably perimeter loop setup. Yeah they have the tee AND the vane in stock. I wish I had some pics. It sounds like yours might just be a straight run so you'd run the 9" then reduce. Unico has good info on trunk and takeoff layouts and their spin in takeoffs for fiber ducts are a snap. The Unico # for 7"x6' is UPC-87-8R. 7" 90 is UPC-18-4R.

Colin · May 2003

Have done all 3.......

> I have only installed Unico, but have serviced

> Space Pak. Both systems are very good. The

> advantage for hi velocity for us is we don't need

> a sheetmetal sub to do the ductwork. The material

> is more expensive but it goes in faster, is

> easier to work with, and less obtrusive. I have

> both coneventional duct system and hi velocity

> system in my house. I wish they were both hi

> velocity. P.S. I suggeseted to Unico they make a

> gas furnace for their system.

>

> David

Colin · May 2003

Have done all 3.......

Brian, and my $$$ are on Energy Saving Products Hi-V.

Air leakage thru the fiberglass micro duct over time on the space pak and unico systems we've installed are no fun to go back and fix in latter years, not to mention the possibility of breathing fiberglass fibers drawn into the air-stream from the main duct or even thru the cloth walls of sound an
ttenuator tubing by the air moving in them.

Hi-v's use pre-engineered 10 and 15 foot lengths of solid core flex duct with built in sound attenuator also couplings are already attatched and the industries only flanged boot with built in damper control in each outlet is standard. The closest thing to plug-n-play I've seen.

Sheetmetal duct insulated on the outside or PVC duct (if allowed by your codes) also insulated are the way to go.

Be sure to use foil or UL-181 listed tape on ALL joints, lenghth wise and around all pipe, elbows, and fittings.

Hi-v has very easy to use computer design software and you don't have to mess around with the balancing orfice plates as the system is self balancing at approx. 8 outlets/ ton.

But in the long run it all comes down to what your comfortable with and where you can get the service.

Best regaurds, Colin

Wayco Wayne · May 2003

Have installed

about a dozen Unico's. Work great never have trouble with them. I shy away from the fiberglass ducts because I've heard horror stories about their suseptability to growing mold on the inside of the duct. Not something I want to have to worry about. WW

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

heatboy · May 2003

Qhestions.

> If you're looking to save time on installs, this

> will cut labor by quite a lot. I have installed

> some Spacepack and AirLink was much faster to

> install and less for materials. All holes are

> pre cut in the distribution box. The main plnium

> is precut duct board. Check it out you may like

> it. It's a HeatLink product.

>

> Ted

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

heatboy · May 2003

Questions.

> If you're looking to save time on installs, this

> will cut labor by quite a lot. I have installed

> some Spacepack and AirLink was much faster to

> install and less for materials. All holes are

> pre cut in the distribution box. The main plnium

> is precut duct board. Check it out you may like

> it. It's a HeatLink product.

>

> Ted

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

heatboy · May 2003

Questions.

Ted,

Looks interesting. Why no sound attenuation? Do you figure the pressure drop through the 2" duct as you do with the other systems? What is the minimum distance from the air handler to the distibution box?

hb

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Mark J Strawcutter · May 2003

SpacePak

I designed and installed a SpacePak sysem in my current home and had a local contractor set/connect the condensor.

Went with SpacePak since it's what the contractor could provide access to. Take-offs/connectors seem easier to use than Unico.

Unico documentation shines, but I got good response via telephone from SpacePak tech support. Also attended a half-day workshop at supplier conducted by SpacePak rep.

Plenum is Johns Manville "super-round" coated fiberglass. Supplier didn't stock 45's (and they don't show in SpacePak literature as a standard item) but others have said they are available in their area.

Read the documentation several/many times (either SpacePak or Unico) - especially if you have lots of experience with conventional A/C.

Mark

Ted_5 · May 2003

AirLink The Quiet Cool System

HB, The sound attenuation is the distribution box. The min.
length of main plenum is 2' and max of 24'. In the split
system, the 8" flex can be 12' to 25' each. If you would
more info, talk to Jerry Katz, or call AirLink Tech. support
and Talk to Berry office # 262-782-8641 or call # 262-208-0353. Try it you'll like it!

Ted

P.S. HeatBoy Love that web site!!!

Scott M · May 2003

Unico and Hi-ve

We started out using Hi -Ve but had a lot of trouble with them.We switched to Unico and there is no comparison, much better product.We only use metal ductwork, no fiberglass = no lawsuits down the road.

tombig · May 2003

I've always favored wrapped insulation over interior insulated ducts for air flow characteristics and lack of 'grab' for dust, mold etc... With so many commercial and residential installs with duct lining fiberglass duct in a cooling only application seems safe enough.

Brian (Tankless) Wood · May 2003

Thanks to all you guys.

It appears to be 95% in favour of Unico, so Unico it will be. And definitely steel pipe main duct, for all the reasons you gave.

I just hope the decision doesn't revolve entirely around initial cost of equipment.

Now, does anyone know how to transfer all these wonderful responses (including attachments) to my machine, so the owner & GC can see for themselves what the majority of pro's install.

Can I archive everything, it would be great if I could.

You guys are the best, Thanks.

Brian, in steamy humid Swampland.

Spacepak, Unico or Hi-Velocity?

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