Mike T.

Steve Ebels

You asked about the PH of the condensate from that Vitodens we fired up the other day. Well sir, I am at your service and here to tell you it measured 4.6 on the scale in my Hach test kit. Why the question?

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Thanks Steve

Was just curious as to how acid. About like a tomato or just a bit more acid than the local rain...

Is this similar to other boilers?

Interesting discussion of condensing vs. non-condensing from the UK

http://www.housingenergy.org.uk/heebpp/jsp/pdfs/GIL074.pdf

From Germany:

"According to the "general waste water regulations" only waste water/sewage with a pH-value between 6.5 and 8.5 can be introduced into the sewage system.
With gas based condensing boiler systems the pH-value is between approximately 3.8 and 5.4. This range means that the condensate of the condensing process is an acid and so can not be introduced into the sewage system without further treatment/processing."

http://www.eduvinet.de/servitec/breeep30.htm

Is this an issue in the US?



THANKS!

Steve Ebels

I've never heard

Of anyone even talking about this issue around here. Inspectors, plumbing or mechanical or otherwise. Most are probably not even aware of this fact. I've seen some really nasty looking sump pumps come out of pits that have had condensate run into them for only a few years.

tombig

Acidic condensate

I've never experienced it but a friend had to replace a concrete wash tub after he drained a 90+ furnace into it and it etched the concrete.

hot_rod

I'd worry, also

about concrete septic tanks and cast iron p traps under floor drains. I would think the condensate neautralizer would be an important part to include. Fairly simple and inexpensive.

hot rod

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Was also wondering

If Veissmann had somehow managed to conquer the NOx problem (I think that's what makes condensate acidic).

What do you want to bet that their next goal is nearly ph neutral condensate?

Steve Ebels

Don't know about that

The Vitodens IS a low NOx appliance already.

PJO_2

Wastewater...

Now you're talking my game :-)

Most POTW's (Publicly Owned Treatment Works) are under the EPA regulation of 6.0 to 9.0 pH levels. Often there is contingencies down to 5.0, but anything below that usually draws a red flag.

As someone said earlier, it's a fairly simple matter in most cases to correct the problem. It usually comes with a small dollar and maintenance hit, but sure beats angering the authorities by ignoring it.

On a related note, doesn't anyone sell a simple cylinder-type alkaline treatment that is easily re-filled? I can picture a column (or something similar) that gets changed out with whatever chemical at certain points...or am I just whacky? Even one for residential?

Have a great weekend Wallies! Take Care, PJO

Steve Ebels

Part numbers

Viessmann condensate neutralization kit
7134-231 for 6-24 and 8-32 boilers

7134-232 for 11-44 and 15-60

replacement pellets for above 9524-670

antman

tetser

What is a good pH tester?
Strips from a pool supply or should i buy a tester?

Thanks, Ant

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Steve Ebels

Test kit

I bought mine from good ole WW Grainger. it tests for hardness, tannin, manganese, hydrogen sulfide, PH, copper and iron. Cost about $330. Part number 4P065. They also have just PH testers in the meter section of the catalog. These are resistance type testers.

antman

Steve, are there any reasons to have to test all that. I was thinking more along the lines for heating equipment. The local water around here is pretty good. Any info would be great.

thanks...ant

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Steve Ebels

We sell

Water softeners also. I usually don't test for copper or sulfide unless the home owner requests that I look for them. For boilers I want to know the hardness, PH of course and iron content. What you look for depends a lot on your local supply of water. I'm sure if you look around there are simpler kits that can do what you need.

Wayco Wayne_2

Acidic Condensate

About 20 years ago I installed a condensing furnace in my parents house and ran the condensate outside via condensate pump. Purely by accident the location of the sharply sloped PVC pipe we used to run the water out of was into his blueberry patch. Over the next few years Dad's blueberry plants went nuts, growing bigger than I've ever seen with the biggest nickel sized blueberrys ever. It dawned on me that the acid loving plants were getting a dose of what they normally don't in our non-acid Maryland clay. We used to make a PVC container filled with garden variety marble chips to run the condenstate through in jobs that had cast iron floor drains. Changing the marble chips every few years was a pain in the arse though. WW

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Art Pittaway_2

Actually Wayne, it's lime stone

Side note to acid neutralization is the chemistry lab at your local college or manufacturing plant. Look up info on Schott Glass pipe or any of the plastics like Embassy, etc. Most of them have sumps for sale. They are normally installed as a separate system and have a tank sized to allow a minimum time for the acids to mix with the lime and bring the PH to an acceptable level. These tanks are from 5 gal to thousands depending on how many sinks they serve. All to often maintenance on these is lost in the shuffle of more important things and the tanks are empty. Several companies sell bags of lime "pellets" for this reason. Large systems will have PH alarms that monitor the outflow from the basin. The basins look very much like a grease trap, only function is to pass the acid thru the lime stone. Art

hot_rod

For boiler water

hardness, ph and tds would be good testers to own. TDS is important on new wells, not as necessary on city water systems.

PH is a must if you install and maintain glycoled systems. Hach makes nice, inexpensive testers, as Steve mentioned, find them at WW Graingers. Make sure to have them caliberated ocassionally, also.

If the testing needs to be more in depth than these three, I would recommend taking a sample to a water treatment pro. They have top drawer test equipment, generally, and know more about water chemistry and how it would effect your system.

Stay away from the "softner only" water treatment sales guys!

hot rod