Friday night tain breezer (PAH)

Dave Yates (PAH)

back loss for this flooring structure??? Owner was told no insulation will be needed by the floor panel manufacturer. Basement area will be utilized for storage and needs to remain under 60 degrees F.

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Dan Peel

Tryin'

Hey Dave, All they need to do is leave the windows open and keep the water temp under 80, should work fine........ Oh, no efficiency was not part of the question, Heat loss? There won't be any heat on the upper level to lose. No problem we take Visa. Sign here. Thank you for your business. Dan

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[Deleted User]

It'll be OKay...

heat rises dontchaknow :-)

To the unsuspecting newby/homeowner, the above statement is not true. Heat flows from hot to cold continuously and forever until there is no more temperature differential.

Dave, I'd have them sign off on their statement, and offer the services of an spray on insulation company. No sign, no guarantee as to your system performance.

Who's the tubing manufacturer if you don't mind my asking.

ME

Steve Ebels

looks to me

Like your heat loss would be at least 25% of whatever the floor is radiating. 2" on top divided by 8" below equals .25. That would be a minimum. Hard telling where the hollow cores can transfer heat to through convection if they are open at all. If they want to maintain the basement below 60* I'd say they're in trouble. That basement ceiling should have at least an inc of foam on it minimum. Two would be better. I'm with Mark, all bats are off unless it's insulated.

Dave Springer

Dave

You are just back from ISH. This is very common construction for Germany. Major difference however. Should be at least 1 inch (25 mm) thickness of insulation just below the pipe sandwich. And do not forget, edge insulation is even more important.

Good question for a future RPA certification exam.

Take a look at a few website for companies such as

Gary

Dave Springer

Slab on Slab RFH Construction

Dave

You are just back from ISH. This is very common construction for Germany. Major difference however. Should be at least 1 inch (25 mm) thickness of insulation just below the pipe sandwich. And do not forget, edge insulation is even more important.


Take a look at a few websites for German companies such as

http://www.velta.de/engl/ftecto/main.htm

Good question for a future RPA certification exam.

Gary

hot_rod

yup

that confirms my suspicions. I too was thinking of a percentage based upon thickness, but I got myself bound up in a bunch when I started trying to account for the greater heat loss on the upper floor versus the well insulated (foam blocks filled with concrete) basement that's entirely below grade.

You're right of course. He made the pronouncement that heat rises and since this was our first sit down, I was perhaps not forceful enough when I explained that radiant energy moves in all directions. I started to launch into a more detailed explanation, but caught myself before losing the audience. I did press home the point that the 10,000 gallons of wine planned on being racked below would become vinegar if this floor isn't insulated & that definately got his attention! He agreed that a spray on foam can be applied if he becomes convinced it's necessary. No tubing manufacturer or boiler picked as of yet. He seems to feel he's got some ideas in that area based upon friends experiences and his internet research, but we didn't explore that - yet.

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hot_rod

well

I did suggest a layer under the tube & above the 8" thick panels, but he told me that 2" pour gets a tad thinner towards the center of each panel as they are slightly humped. I got cold feet thinking of heavy foot traffic on top of a pour less than 2" thick when placed on top of a foam substrate.

Real world radiant questions. I'd be willing to bet each of us could easily come up with no less that a baker's dozen regarding perplexing radiant anomolies. You'd give the perspective test takers indigestion and gray hair!

Thanks for the link, I will be checking that after our soggy Camp Tuckahoe dedication ceremony this morning. Up to our knees in mud, but camp opens in two weeks - yikes! You know how Scouts are - they'd build a boat before they'd ever cancel an event(G). Be prepared - "well you shoulda packed an inflatable raft".

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