Webster 8A

Mike Reavis_2

did, or does. It is on an old vapor system, with a new boiler(large church). It is high up on the return piping. I think it is an air vent, and can probably be replaced safely with something modern. WHat do you think?

The other question is has anyone ever used the draft from the stack to help take the air out of a system like the "ancients" did? (I got an 80 foot chimney that I would like to try it on).

Mike

Steamhead

That's a Return Trap

according to my 1950s Dunham-Bush catalog. It was used with a #220B float trap/air eliminator. If you don't find the air eliminator or vent near the boiler, follow the dry return to its other end and you will probably see it there.

Obviously, you don't want to remove that Return Trap.

It might be possible to vent into the chimney, but you don't want steam to enter the chimney. First locate the main air vent on the dry return and see how far it is from the chimney. If it's some distance from the chimney, you can use a long pipe to condense any steam that gets that far. If it's close to the chimney, you can use a long pipe that doubles back or a large thermostatic trap to stop the steam.

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Mike Reavis_2

Dunham Bush

Steamhead,
This is a problem job that we are trying to help with. The puzzling thing is there really is not a distinct wet and dry return as we are familiar with them. The boiler room is about 15 feet below the church. There is a main, and a return. The main is dripped before it turns to rise to ground level. It then goes about 10 feet horizontally. It is not dripped again as it rises into the church. The mains split, and then there are two F&T's at the end. There are no air vents on the F&T's. There is no wet return, and no drip at the end of the main, save the F&T's, which tie into the return for all the rest of the radiators. The radiators have the D/B valves high on the right side.
I believe that the system would quiet down if the traps would be repaired, and the approximately 4-500 feet of missing insulation would re-appear on the pipes in the ceiling of the fellowship hall(the sanctuary is above this area). A vaporstat would be nice too.

I am concerned that the current system's original return piping is too old, and too small for the massive amount of condensation that all that bare pipe can produce. I am also concerned that if we allow the system to vent faster, and solve the hammering, that the boiler may flood. There is no boiler feed tank.

I am attaching a sketch of the position of the D/B 8A. There is also in the lower part of the sketch a rough drawing of an inline device, also made by D/B, that bears no identification that we could find. It is in the return before the boiler return trap.

Mike

Steamhead

I shrunk the image

so we can see it more easily. This system is the exception to the traditional "three-pipe" Vapor system.

Since the boiler is below floor level, there was no need to run wet returns to drip the steam mains. Condensate and air from the mains pass thru the F&T traps into the dry returns. Radiators also discharge condensate and air into the dry returns.

Condensate returns to the boiler via what looks like a Return Trap. There should be a steam line coming into that Return Trap. The two vents you show on the dry return before the Return Trap handle the air for the entire system.

There should be no steam at all in the dry return of this system. If there is, you have a bad trap somewhere. Dunham is still in business, and you can also get trap parts from Tunstall and Barnes & Jones.

And those steam pipes desperately need insulation!

Where is this job located?

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Mike Reavis_2

The job is in DC

> so we can see it more easily. This system is the

> exception to the traditional "three-pipe" Vapor

> system.

>

> Since the boiler is below floor

> level, there was no need to run wet returns to

> drip the steam mains. Condensate and air from the

> mains pass thru the F&T traps into the dry

> returns. Radiators also discharge condensate and

> air into the dry returns.

>

> Condensate returns

> to the boiler via what looks like a Return Trap.

> There should be a steam line coming into that

> Return Trap. The two vents you show on the dry

> return before the Return Trap handle the air for

> the entire system.

>

> There should be no steam

> at all in the dry return of this system. If there

> is, you have a bad trap somewhere. Dunham is

> still in business, and you can also get trap

> parts from Tunstall and Barnes & Jones.

>

> And

> those steam pipes desperately need

> insulation!

>

> Where is this job located?

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 157&Step=30"_To Learn More About This Contractor,

> Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A

> Contractor"_/A_



Capitol Hill. As I mentioned it is a church. Apparently, and I don't think the good father would alter the truth, but the story is that the Secret Service men pulled their weapons one Sunday morning in response to the racket produced by the steam coming up! Maybe if they pass the plate around twice they can hire an insulation contractor.

Mike

Mike Reavis_2

The job is in DC

Capitol Hill. As I mentioned it is a church. Apparently, and I don't think the good father would alter the truth, but the story is that the Secret Service men pulled their weapons one Sunday morning in response to the racket produced by the steam coming up! Maybe if they pass the plate around twice they can hire an insulation contractor.

Mike

Steamhead

Here's the man you want

Dan Foley, of Foley Mechanical. He has done a lot of work with steam, includung restoring an old, rare Hutchison Vapor system! Follow the link to Dan's "Find a Contractor" ad:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm.cfm?id=262&Step=30

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hot_rod

DC Steamer

Mike,

Are you the same guy I talked to last night at the ACCA meeting? I would be more than happy to help out. Give me a call tomorrow at the office (703-751-3288).

-DF

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