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Mad Dog's \"This damn! House...continued\"

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Mike T., Swampeast MO
Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928
in THE MAIN WALL
Nice plumbing Mad Dog! Hope I'm not the only one who can actually find DWV "sexy" when done nicely.

Have encountered the SAME problem myself--a technical "S" trap due to using a wye. My house--inspector didn't say anything, but Hot Rod's sharp eyes caught it also...

It's a dedicated shower drain and while of the "car wash" variety, even IF the trap did siphon, the water from the floor would most certainly restore the seal. Dedicated vent so no water "slogs" coming down to pull out the trap seal--the biggest objection to "S" traps I believe.

Don't have time to look up the section in NPC right now, but believe that the guarantee of the trap seal being restored by the film of water on the floor is what makes a floor (or shower) drain a bit of a "special case" when it comes to venting.

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    Mad Dog's \"This Damn!!! House...continued\"

    For those who have been following my never-ending renovations, I have completed the sanitary (all no-hub of course), electric is 85% done, Steam vapor system 100% done, radiant for basement is down and poured, gas lines will be done today Easter morning. I will start the domestic water (copper baby!!!!!) next week, after that all that will be left is central ac and fire sprinkler (can't wait to do that!). For any that are interested, I will hold an open house/bbq before i close the walls for all to observe the First - but we hope not the last Vapor system of the 21st Century. There will be video footage and interviews to chronicle this event. I'll keep ya'll posted. HAPPY EASTER CHRIST IS RISEN!!!! Mad Dog

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  • Dave Palmer
    Dave Palmer Member Posts: 186
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    no-hub

    looks great, I took the lazy way out and insulated my pvc.I know the feeling of never ending,just getting ready to tile 2nd floor bathroom,and have a Veissman and 200' of pipe just begging to be put in. This summer I'll send the family to the beach so I can knock it out. Happy Easter, Dave
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
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    hey

    Mad Dog. Save some stainless steel for the rest of us, huh?
    At your shindig, we can take turns flushing:)

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  • John@Reliable_2
    John@Reliable_2 Member Posts: 104
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    Reminds me what 3 inspectors said to me.......

    when I built my house in 2000 " it's amazing what guys will do when they can get it free or at cost" Looks great maddog. John@Reliable
  • Mark J Strawcutter
    Mark J Strawcutter Member Posts: 625
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    A/C

    What are you planning to install for A/C?

    Mark
  • TLS_2
    TLS_2 Member Posts: 1
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    Damn, Mad Dog....

    Cast Iron, Copper AND Steam! Maybe the good old days arn't gone yet. Makes me nestolgic and brings a tear to my eye.

    Did you consider caulkn' them joints rather than no hub? :)

    NICE JOB, buddy!

    tom
  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    Thanks for all the nice words

    Straw: Lennox! Yeah, Im usin' everything and i DO MEAN EVERYthing form my trucks and a lot of stuff that has been in my barn for a few years. What is nice about working in your own house is that you don't have to worry about putting in mismatched fittings or rusty ones - you know. In fact, I just finished up the gas, and I used some galvanized I had laying around - with quite a few couplings I might add! Gotta watch the bucks you know. What I'm really psyched about is that I'm going to be able to use buckets of 1 1/2" and 2" copper fittings that I got at garage sales and the like over the years (for chump change) we all know what a 2" copper tee costs!!! I'm doing a fire sprinkler system for the whole house in copper, so they will come in handy. I even used an old galvanized cast Iron Durham 1/16 bend on my boiler header - it was exactly what I needed, so I just cleaned out the old grease and put 'er in. That oft' used saying, "I wouldn't do that in MY house!" Or "Would you do that in YOUR house" and "I can't see it from MY house>' works the opposite with me. I agonize over using two different valves that don't match on the same job.ie. I like everything to be absolutely perfect - artwork if you will! But in my house, everything will exceed code requirements and goes in with a lot of care, but I don't worry about as much - can't afford the time or money - gotta use up what I have. It really is fun making it happen on a shoestring. My house trap manifold and most of the underground was LEAD AND OAKUM CAULKED! That's right...old school ain't dead...not as long as Mad Dog's on the loose. Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    Thanks for all the nice words

    Straw: Lennox! Yeah, Im usin' everything and i DO MEAN EVERYthing form my trucks and a lot of stuff that has been in my barn for a few years. What is nice about working in your own house is that you don't have to worry about putting in mismatched fittings or rusty ones - you know. In fact, I just finished up the gas, and I used some galvanized I had laying around - with quite a few couplings I might add! Gotta watch the bucks you know. What I'm really psyched about is that I'm going to be able to use buckets of 1 1/2" and 2" copper fittings that I got at garage sales and the like over the years (for chump change) we all know what a 2" copper tee costs!!! I'm doing a fire sprinkler system for the whole house in copper, so they will come in handy. I even used an old galvanized cast Iron Durham 1/16 bend on my boiler header - it was exactly what I needed, so I just cleaned out the old grease and put 'er in. That oft' used saying, "I wouldn't do that in MY house!" Or "Would you do that in YOUR house" and "I can't see it from MY house>' works the opposite with me. I agonize over using two different valves that don't match on the same job.ie. I like everything to be absolutely perfect - artwork if you will! But in my house, everything will exceed code requirements and goes in with a lot of care, but I don't worry about as much - can't afford the time or money - gotta use up what I have. It really is fun making it happen on a shoestring. My house trap manifold and most of the underground was LEAD AND OAKUM CAULKED! That's right...old school ain't dead...not as long as Mad Dog's on the loose. I will go take a picture now Mad Dog

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  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,202
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    A tribute to the iron age!

    Quite an undertaking, nice work. Hope you have a good foundation under that home :) Is that a running S trap dumped into a Y? Looks like it could syphon the trap seal dry?

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • chuck shaw
    chuck shaw Member Posts: 584
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    Just Curious

    Have you had your local inspector in yet? If so what were his comments? Looks like it was fun....

    Chuck

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  • Mark J Strawcutter
    Mark J Strawcutter Member Posts: 625
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    Lennox

    I'm guessing "conventional" then - thought perhaps you were a high velocity (Unico/SpacePak) fan.

    Nice work on the cast iron - I'll be the flushes will be almost undetectable.

    Mark
  • MURPH'
    MURPH' Member Posts: 88
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    EEEEAAAAYYYUUUUOOOOWWW !!!

    My achin' eyes!! Havent seen that much a rehab for quite awhile (specially with the vapor). looks like you're rounding third and heading in for "In-the-park" home run. keep me posted for the party ,bro!! I think I still got the number of the "guy" with all the amusment rides!! (howsma?) We'll have to find the slob hoo left thier trash in the attic of the "dawg howse" heheh!!



    Later on, and have a great Easter!!


    Murph'
  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    Thanks HR

    we rebuilt the whole foundation a piece at a time..this house could support A STAble of hosses. I was hoping someone would pick up on that. No s traps allowed here- wouldn't do it antway. that is a 2" P-Trap that will pick up the jacuzzi tub. I've got the P-trap connected to a nice long turn boston ty, so, it's vented within about 2 pipe diameters of the trap outlet - can't get no closer or' it will be be crown vented. Although the code wants the lowest part of the vent above the crown wier of the trap, I'd rather use the boston instead of a standard ty, for rodding purposes in the future - we are talkin about an inch difference in height which I'm not worried about. As you know sometimes you have to make up your own rules when it just make more sense. To the other post: The plumbing inspectors are blown away - they don't know what to look at the vapor or the iron - wait till the fire sprinks go in....The old timer, said it reminds him of a battleships boiler room from his Navy days.......thanks guys

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    HOT ROD!!!!~ I know what the problem is...........

    The 2" p -trap is directly in front of the 3" long sweep fron the toilet waste...it does look like it goes right into that trap there. actually, the inlet to the trap is capped until i get the jacuzzzi on site, but i can now see were it looks like a running trap...Mad dog

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  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,884
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    maddog

    I think HR is looking at the house trap, which I was checking out also. Its illigal to use them in Mass for years now. Its O.K. in N.Y. huh ?

    Really nice work, no PVC for the dog. Not even vents ?

    Scott

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    The only place they don't want house traps is on

    septic systems. They are still code here, and i think it is a good thing - big trap keeps big rats outta yer house drains (actually I have seen videos of them swimmin thru house traps) but I think the nice deep seal of say a standard 4" ht keeps alot of sewer vermin and flies/ maggots on the right side of the trap. I also remember a story of where a gasoline truck flipped over and filled the street sewers with gas vapors. All the houses on the block were ok except one where the house trap was missing...gas vapors filled the stacks and vents and something I forget what sparked and the house blew big time, I like house traps!!! Besides that, with a full-sized fresh air inlet jusy before the trap, siphonage will not occur. they used to require that sewage ejectors discharge downstream of the house trap, which I agree with because I HAVE SEEN that siphon out a trap. I piped my sewage ejector this way and left a nice full-size 5" cleanout just past the house trap too! Scott, if you know anything about me by now you know
    I'm harcore and if I take a leap...I do a swan dive NO PVC WHATSOEVER!!!!!!!! ARRRRRRRRGGHHJHGHGHHHGHH Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    Why do my posts keep comin' out soooooo wide

    mad dog

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  • Ernie
    Ernie Member Posts: 94
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    Open House/BBQ

    Is this invitation only for professionals in the business or to any one that is interested? I am a home owner and particularly interest in steam systems. Have attended several of Dans seminars, and have some of his books, constantly lurk on this site, its an addiction just like fine wine or beer.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    Cause you use fat pictures

    Shrink 'em up so they are 500-600 dots wide, and they'll fit.

    Or dial in that Olympus so it takes them on the HQ setting.....Then they'll be narrow enough to fit.

    Noel
  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    What happened to my setting Noel???

    Does it unset itself itself somes times//??dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    I got it Noel

    I had to go in Camedia and resize photo...i wonder why the camera does that from time to time mad dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    ERNIE!!!!!! If you like steam..................................

    of course you are invited...how could I turn away a fellow steam afficiando. I'll post a notice.....just keep "sippin' that fine wine (California of course!!!!)we call the wall. Mad Dog

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  • Bill NTSG
    Bill NTSG Member Posts: 321
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    2\" vent

    Mad Dog, I was looking at where the vent goes into the wye, in my town that would get shot down because the vent take off is below the trap weir. It makes it an "s" trap.It needs to go into a "TY".
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,202
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    P traps, vents, san, tees

    I agree with "not the science guy" Bill. A trap should always vent into a san. tee on a vertical drain. At least that's how I was taught. Maybe the plumbing teachers could weigh in here. bigugh??

    Here is an explanation as I understand it. With a wye or combo the outlet to the vertical drain is below the trap weir.

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    Bill and Hot Rod you are generally correct......................

    We all know that's venting 101. However, if you look closely at this next picture, you will see that the boston is directly after the p-trap - any "dutchman" in between would not fly. With this configuration, the crown weir is on the same horizontal plane as the crotch of the boston where the horizontal portion becomes a vent, thus it will not self-siphon. The code also allows floor drains to be unvented if you are within 15' of a vented line (not even a vent!!!). I did an experiment on a commercial job, where I filled up this waterproofed room (killin' floor in a meat plant) with 4" of water, and then let the floor drain take the water - unrestricted. Did this about 3 times (is that why the forman was annoyed with me??? hee hee probably)and not once did the p-trap siphon out - always maintained her full water seal. Don't get me wrong, many inspectors would question it, but I would fight 'em on it. Ty's - as you know are not snake-friendly, and that is why I used it there. I also upsized the waste and vent (1/1/2" is allowed on both)to 2" to compensate a bit. Did I push it here? Absolutely, but I gotta live on the edge somtimes...keep them inspectors on their toes..Remember, it's my house, I gotta experiment a little...hee hee. Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog
    Mad Dog Member Posts: 2,595
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    Yes Mike , but don't forget the sharp eyes of Bill Nye

    too. Yes, it is also individually vented AND look carefully!!!!! The Crown weir of the trap (the lowest inside portion of the OULET of the trap is on the same horizontal plane - and actually about a 1/4" lower than than inside crotch of the fitting (where the waste becomes a vent). Although it is nice to have a nice, full pipe diameter of air, above the water as it wastes out, this will certainly work fine as waste pipe do not run 100% full anyway even under full flow. Moreover, remember guys, a true "S" trap HAS NO VENT ABOVE IT WHATSOVER, THIS CASE REALLY IS NOT AN "S" TRAP AT ALL. Incidentally, our code ALLOWS "S" TRAPS on acid waste systems now that is a trap you DEFINITELY don't want to selp-siphon. Now you know why they call me Mad Dog ha ha ha - goopd debate, huh? Mad Dog

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