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Boiler instructions vs mfg's

peter desens
peter desens Member Posts: 41
You make a good point. I think McDonnell Miller did a good job addressing this when the changed to a ball valve shut-off, no more drips. Still doesn't help when blowing down, but I quess the idea is to do exactly as your photo shows, use some elbows and piping to route the blow-off to the side of the burner. This has kind of become the industry standard.


  • Edward A. Carey
    Edward A. Carey Member Posts: 48
    Boiler instructions vs control mfg's

    I had an interesting meeting the other day. I was at a home talking to a HO about his new steam boiler. I asked if the installer told him how to maintain his new
    McDonnell Miller #67 LWCO. He said no, but it was posted on the boiler jacket.

    I looked for the usual MM instructions that come with the control, and what do I find but a different sticker from Utica, that lists different instructions than MM.

    If the HO follows the Utica instructions he will only be blowing down the boiler ONCE PER MONTH, and nothing is listed about the boiler operating & under full pressure when flushing the control.

    Seems that Utica has decided to become the R & D department for MM, because they have invented their own rules. OR,,,, someone at Utica had a brother-in-law who needed a job, and he does not have a clue how steam boilers work.

    Check out the photos,, I would also appreciate your opinions about this. Seem to me like Utica should get ther Poo in one pile.

    Edward A. (Ed) Carey
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,487
    Such a simple thing.

    This shouldn't be happening. Thanks for pointing it out, Ed.
    Retired and loving it.
  • J.C.A.
    J.C.A. Member Posts: 349
    I like ...

    to put a sign right above the homeowners trash barrells in red marker , to remind them to flush the LWCO every time they take out the trash. (usually....once a week ). Just a thought. Chris
  • Chris_15
    Chris_15 Member Posts: 7
    Am I missing something?

    My boiler has a "guard ring" LWCO; we have soft water, and the only maintenance I know about is to take it out once a YEAR, eyeball it for sediment, wipe it off, and put it back in. Is there something else I otta be taking care of?
  • John@Reliable_2
    John@Reliable_2 Member Posts: 104
    Ed,sounds like our e-mail afew months ago?

    what to do? Most new steam systems talk about adding to much water. Some as little as 8 gals. monthly. Blow down 3 to 4 gals aweek x 4 has added 16 gals monthly just for blow down. Now what happens when boiler rots out in 6 years? due to water being added. One said this and the other said that, John@Reliable
    P.S. Now if you could get installer not to use tee on flue pipe and put the draft closer to chimney, and a firomatic shut-off @ burner would be nice to!!!
  • John@Reliable_2
    John@Reliable_2 Member Posts: 104
    No Chris,you didn't miss anything,

    we are talking about a mechical lwco which needs to be flushed "more" often than a probe type.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,487
    I don't think

    you need to blow-down three to four gallons each time, John. Remembering back to my M&M days, just about a quart will do the trick.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Brian (Tankless) Wood
    Brian (Tankless) Wood Member Posts: 222
    Are you guys insomniacs

    or sump'n. Wait a minute, it's only 5.11am here. Oh never mind.

    3-4 gal's per b-down does sound like a lot, though.

    Have a great week fella's.

    What do you think of all them o-rings on Tom Simensen's fabulous RPA winning Grundfos job ? I'm kinda partial to metal to metal.

    Brian in Swampland.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,714
    Ed, that Starfire is similar

    to the Columbia CSFH, and I saw the same thing on the last CSFH steamer we installed. I think the older M&M instructions did say to blow down at least once a month, but that has changed for the better! I'll mention that to the rep next time we talk.

    The installer ALWAYS needs to cover the blow-down procedure with the owner. We never leave a job without doing so.

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    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,436
    If that goes to court some

    day Utica wil lose the case, FACT! Already been down that road two years ago, STUPID or Utica's got a lot of lawyer's credit money to burn and then there's a different angle:
    No one from M&M has told Utica of the change. Wouldn't surprise me since that's what the bottom line on the last case I had was!
  • peter desens
    peter desens Member Posts: 41

    Good exchange of comments, and as a result we will review the label and how it reads. I think everyone would agree the intent of the label and much of it's content is a welcome change from what many manufacturers offer, nothing.

    Other than the label, there are a few things I can't help but question when looking at the photo.
    1. Barometric damper should be in the rise or the run. Current position only recommended for gas installs.
    2. Looks like a lot of copper piping behind the boiler, always recommended to use black iron.
    3. The exposed oil line is a bit concerning, also never hurts to have a filter at the pump. Can't tell how the line connects to the pump, I see no flare fittings.
    4. Single steam riser used. While a two inch riser may be adequate for the volumn of steam produced, two risers are always recommended for a balanced water line in boiler, and more forgiving application.

    Peter Desens
    Technical Service Manager
    Utica Boilers

  • Al Letellier
    Al Letellier Member Posts: 781
    Steam Boiler photo

    I agree with the constructive criticism on the install, but another thing is bugging me. I know it goes to packaging and shipping, but why do manufacturers insist on putting the "wet stuff" directly over the burner. A couple of brass 90s and a few nipples and it's out of the way and if it leaks, and it will........?

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  • John@Reliable_2
    John@Reliable_2 Member Posts: 104
    Dan, you are right but......

    every basement or boiler room I go into has a 5 gallon bucket. I truly believe most people will not stop at 1 or 2 qts. I ask customers all the time, standard answer is "till all the rust is gone". I will explain the proper way and why,but I bet the new way only lasts for the 1st or 2nd time, cause thiers still dirty water coming out. Old habits if you know what I mean. P.S. on new installs I only use probe type just for this reason. John@Reliable
  • Edward A. Carey
    Edward A. Carey Member Posts: 48
    Utica Boiler & LWCO maint.

    Thanks to all,

    I did not go over all that was wrong with this install. It would have taken all night.

    Also, I did not mean to rehash the MM LWCO instructions, in as much as I wanted to highlitet the mis info on the boiler relative to the LWCO mfg spec.

    Peter from Utica, thanks for following us here on the forum. We do vent at times, but, oh well, that's steam
    for ya :) Also, please don't tell me that your wife is mad at me for making fun about about her brother. :):)

    On a serious note, Peter, why don't you just use the sticker that is enclosed with the MM LWCO. The one I
    displayed in the photo. If you are going to put a sticker on the boiler, just use the one in the control instructions, then the info for the LWCO is directly from MM to the end user. You're out of the middle if something goes wrong.

    The one irony of this is that the boiler in the photo replaced one that was destroyed when it dry-fired, due to a LWCO full of sludge. The HO did not have a clue how to flush that one, and was never told what to do with the new one.
    BTW,,,, he does know now.

    Regards to all,
    You guys are the best,
    Ed Carey
This discussion has been closed.