water seal steam trap

Steamhead

is the key here. By the time steam gets to that water seal, the radiator is full of steam which is condensing, causing a vacuum. The pressure at the boiler is kept so low (7 ounces or so) that combined with the vacuum in the rad it cannot blow the water seal. Add to this the use of the chimney draft to pull air from the system, reducing the steam pressure needed.

If for some reason the pressure got high enough to blow the seals, a condensing pipe or radiator kept steam from reaching the chimney.

The Dead Men were true geniuses!

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[Deleted User]

how does the water seal in a steam trap

of say MOUAT, O-E, or BROMMEL, work? how is it that the pressure doesn't blow thru? if 1 3/4'' of water column is one ounce, heck, the little p-trap in a mouat trap would be capable of holding back say only one ounce of pressure. the trap way of the mouat is about an inch and a half..yet they work fine cause they are all over town. just having a tough time mentally with these things...i love how the elders did things with no moving parts, but it makes my brain hurt dwelling on them sometimes.

Ben_3

Vapor

They also put orifices in the supply valves to to only aloow in 80% of the rads capacity to help ensure that the radiator would condense all of the steam. If it didn't the pressure was so low that the water seal would condense the remaing vapor if it made it that far.
Second that the Dead Men were true genius

[Deleted User]

so, since i'm told that there isn't a house

in the usa that cant be heated under vapor pressure,,wouldn't it make sense to install vaporstats and use water seal traps ( when enough are scrouged up thru peoples remodeling) instead of thermostatic traps that will eventually fail?

Steamhead

Better yet

talk to Tom "There Are NO Obsolete Steam Parts" Tunstall. He could probably duplicate them in his shop.

Who knows, if he has his way we might someday be installing "The Tunstall Vapor System"!

www.tunstall-inc.com

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Boilerpro_3

That's what Ive been thinking

We don't always have to put these old systems back the way they were to make them work.....let's improve them instead! I'd love to see the mechanical parts on most older systems get replaced with someting more reliable. I'm guessing traps were used on many more recent systems in order to dumb down installation(don't have to figure out orifice sizes) and to cheapen the install..smaller rads, higher pressures. However, with thermal upgrades to structures, these systems are now oversized and can work at vapor pressures, so why not upgrade them?


Boilerpro

Steamhead

Good point, BP

however, I think today's stainless-steel trap replacement capsules may last a lot longer than we're used to. I have some Hoffmans out there that have gone 4 years- some dirt got in one of them but that's the only problem we had. I have some Barnes & Jones units that have run 3 years without trouble, and Noel put a whole bunch of Tunstalls in about 10 years ago and they still work perfectly.

Time will tell, but they're looking pretty good so far.

Sizing orifices really isn't that big a deal- I've done it. This method really lets you fine-tune the load by adjusting the Vaporstat.

The problem I see with water seals is they can freeze. I think Mouat found a way around that but I can't remember what it was. Guess I'll have to go visit the Dead Men........

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[Deleted User]

has anyone come up with radiator valve

orifice sizing chart, or is it trial and error? i'd love a copy if someone has one.

Steamhead

I use

the one in the ASHVE Guide- 1947 or so.

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[Deleted User]

your teasing me steamhead

could you post a copy here?

[Deleted User]

here's a mouat cut in half

the arrows mark the holes that the air used to get out, and the drain hole to prevent freezing ruptures.

Steamhead

Here ya go

this is from the 1947 guide, didn't have a chance to scan it earlier- had to switch from passive to active SCSI terminator on the scanner.

Delta-P is expressed in inches of mercury, 2-inches= 1 PSI approximately. For Vapor work use the 1-inch column.

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[Deleted User]

awsome, thanks steamhead

ive wanted a copy of this for ever...thanks much..

Boilerpro_3

OH AH, What Gerry Said! ...Boilerpro MN

Steamhead

Enjoy! (NM)



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