Hydronics Objections

Tom Meyer

I was at a Home and Garden Show over the weekend and asked a builder why he didn't offer hydronic heat.

He said:

"There was a report out that said forced air is more efficient."

"Furnaces have a higher efficiency rating than boilers."

"It costs too much."

"My people know how to install forced air, not radiant heat."

"Those systems never work right. They are nothing but trouble."

I've heard many of these before, but the "report" is coming up more and more in conversations with builders.

Senior Designer/Trainer
Precision Hydronics
www.precisionhydronics.com

Steamhead

Find out

who published the report. Betcha it was a scorched-air organization.

The rest of the "objections" are easily refuted by any knowledgable Wethead.

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Mark Hunt

I wonder


if the "report" isn't that silly thing that was published about the "comparison" of homes in Schenectady?

What a farce!

Mark H

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Tony Conner

It's Not So Much...

...who published it, but who funded the "study". Oddly enough, whoever funds a particular study or survey, always seems to get data from it to support whatever position they already have a vested interest in. I doubt anyone has to look too hard to find a "morally flexible" university researcher, stock market analyst, pollster, etc to generate whatever kind of report you may want if you make it worth their while.

People who blindly believe whatever they get told, are the same kind of people who made P.T. Barnum rich.

Gordy

Professionally ignorant answers from a professionally ignorant person. I'm a carpenter I talk up Radiant every chance I get. Especially in front of the scorched air guys ;-)

Tom Meyer

Now you've hit the real question...

How do we enlighten the "ignorant"? RPA is trying, but I suspect it's going to take a serious grass roots approach.

Any suggestions?

Senior Designer/Trainer
Precision Hydronics
www.precisionhydronics.com

Gordy

Well thats a tough one when someone does not want to be educated. Part of that reason is cost I fear and not the deliverable quality of the system. The reason I feel that radiant has lost its grip after so many years of success, is air conditioning maybe I'm wrong. But the general contractors like to offer the all in one neat and tiddy system at a low cost.

Greg Swob

I'm reminded of my old high school principal

who used to say "Don't confuse me with the facts, because my mind is already made up!" He had quite a way with words and was a little sarcastic at times. We've used some marketing savvy from a successful insurance salesman I know - things such as "If I could design a heating system for you that could save you $XX on your utility bills and provide you with suberp 'comfort'... would you be interested in looking at some options?" He is like a lawyer in court with hard to answer No type of questions to try to close deals. Still, it is a persistant mind set we have to overcome so often. Greg

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Playing the devil's advocate

I get some of that from my hydronic customers as well; just last weekend I visited a job where I had to replace two thermostats, 1 pump and 1 zone valve controller; they had all failed.

We don't do forced air so I don't know if forced air customers have as many problems as hydronic customers, but since water is more caustic than air, I would think hydronic systems are more prone to failure.

But I do know that when the system is running well, there's no better form of heat.

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Gordy

How many furnaces last 41 yars like my previous boiler.Also I tend to think hydronics gets a little more complex than necessary these days for residential heating.To many new products and claims to better efficiency. My system is one temp., one circulator one mixing valve, one flo control valve and a boiler simple trouble free and about 3800' of copper. If I were to zone my home and add outdoor reset that would cost me another 3000.00 and what would it do for me, my system is already super.

Joe_10

Allergies

Thought about the effect of scorched one ones lungs. Very bad for asthmatics.I get regular nose bleeds in the winter and wake with a smokers hack even though I have never smoked.Mostly from the dried out air. I live where when we think it is muggy the humidity is around 65%. From the scorched air systems I have seen they are very simple and heat very unevenly. I also looked at a job once where an engineer was building his own house with radiant floor AND roof mounted HVAC plus oversized everything.I also had a friend who is remodeling a house for resale and can get forced air for a 1200 sq. ft. home complete for $3700.So many people look at what is it going to cost today. Instead of next winter.

Gordy

Comfort

Here is a link that is pretty interesting on overall human comfort and reasoning behind it all.Some of you may already have seen the study.

http://support.caed.asu.edu/radiant/index.html

heatboy

Picking your battles.

How much time do you spend with a potential client before you can tell it's a wasted effort? When they come to you, are they already sold on radiant or are they still kicking tires? Knowing you, I know your time is as valuable to you as mine is to me. I let potential clients know within the first 90 minutes of our first get together how much they will realistically need to budget. If they want to budget for that, great. If not, we don't have to waste too much more of either party's time. I would like them to talk to all the other contractors BEFORE they come see me. It's just better that way.

hb

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