oil or gas ?

[Deleted User]

which is cheaper for steam boiler and can I use a steam boiler with an indirect water heater? I mean is 212 deg water ok for indirect?thanks

Mark A. Custis

Until yesterday I would have said

gas. Not now.

Mark

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kevin

OK....I'll bite...

what happened yesterday that turned you against gas....
Yes you can use an indirect with steam...use the condensate as the medium. most manufacturers have instuctions.. I know superstor(ht products) does for their Ultra model. I am partial to oil for steam, smaller unit, somewhat faster steam up. kpc

Dave Palmer

going up

35% or the like? maybe people will install good equipment wether it be gas or oil.

Mark A. Custis

Kevin:

If I am busy I am not here, but yesterday Alan , our freind in the business, and Beckett showed us an oil fired mailbox that burn blue, not orange. It will take us to a new level as they have also worke with bio-deisel. Must see to believe.

Mark

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Steamhead

Mike, with current equipment

either fuel will work well. What many of us don't realize is that even with so-called "deregulation", gas is still largely a monopoly situation. When you hook up, you're locked in to whatever they charge.

Oil, on the other hand, is a competitive business. You choose based on price and quality of service. If you don't like your supplier you can always switch.

There are many good steam boilers out there. The most important part of a steam boiler replacement is a quality installation job.

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[Deleted User]

oil or gas ?

Thanks for taking time to reply guys .Is my logic correct? 100,000 btus gas =1 therm =60 cents 138,000 btus oil =1 gal =179cents 60*1.38= 82.8 cents for equiv btus of gas as 1 gal of oil at 179 cents .price from keyspan and Maths also. are they biased being in the gas business? thanks Mike

Steve Eayrs

It all depends on where you live.

> Thanks for taking time to reply guys .Is my logic

> correct? 100,000 btus gas =1 therm =60 cents

> 138,000 btus oil =1 gal =179cents 60*1.38= 82.8

> cents for equiv btus of gas as 1 gal of oil at

> 179 cents .price from keyspan and Maths also. are

> they biased being in the gas business? thanks

> Mike

Steve Eayrs

It all depends on where you live.

The price per gallon can differ greatly. We do not have NG in out area so the comparison is between oil and LP.
You get aprox. 30% more btu's/gal. from oil, and LP usually cost more per gal., so it comes out to about 50% more for LP than oil in my part of Alaska.

Steve

J.C.A.

Don't forget ...

To add in the "costs" .

I used to spend 12.00$ a month to have a stove in an apartment . The cost of the gas was usually about3.25 or so . They got you coming and going . You can't shop for piped to your house product. Oil prices HAVE risen quite a bit as of late , granted . Give the Gas companies time and it will be at least equal to the same cost .(they have to go through a regulatory process and we all know how fast they work)

BTU's to $ in this area have MOST of the time come out with oil being the better buy , in the long run . This could change , but I find that hard to believe the difference will be extraordinary.


I like the advice of finding the best and most qualified installer , and let them make a comparison/decision. Best of luck. Chris

Dave Palmer

recheck

those gas prices

Mark A. Custis

I am still cranked:

up about the school at Beckett, and would throw electric and solar into the equation. I have been watch the treads on solar radiant, bio diesel, (not meny kite flyers her or we could see some wind power) :ast issue of SNIPS show a good example of why we must keep our heads and hands open for new ideas.

Paul Pollets you are cool.

Money is money and comfort is comfort. Our customers know when they are out of either.

No one except the guy with the check book can answer the question.

Good luck, is prepairedness meting opportunity.

Mark

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[Deleted User]

OK Mike.

You asked. I work in your Nation's Crapitol (not mispelled). Stopped in a customer's office today. Asked to see a gas bill. He took out one for December, 2002. He has contracted for a flat .30 per therm (100,000 btus) from his gas supplier. Before the distribution charges, city taxes, right of way fees, peak charges, and balancing fees were done, he was paying $1.26636 per therm for natural gas. That works out to (using your 138,000 btus)$1.74758 per gallon for #2 oil.

He did not have a January bill handy. But I'll bet you your adult beverage of choice, that it is even higher. The gas guys never tell you about all those extra charges that just happen along when it gets cold.

If you chose a full service oil company, and select automatic delivery, many will guarantee your price for the entire season. No escalators. And most offer a budget plan.

I'll bet you did not know this. When the Feds first instituted the 80% efficiency rule, they exempted gas residential steam boilers. They couldn't do it. So. Go oil. It gives you, not the utility, the advantage.

BTW. I don't sell a drop of oil or a therm of gas. Just service both.

J.C.A.

Thanks Ron

I couldn't remember all the charges that were posted on my last gas bill, but I do remember they were a great deal more than the fuel itself .

I wish I had the berries to state ( like the poster a few months ago that posted that AIR RULES), that oil rules ....but the way things are going right now I wouldn't even venture a guess as to where it's going .

Like I said before , pick the person to do the job right , he will let you know that answer. Chris

B. Tice

oil/gas

I say that if we did all the calculations and formulas, oil where it is right now at 1.65- 1.75 is about even with gas. I always told people that using gas is like using oil at 1.75 per gallon. (i don't know what i'd tell them now!) But remember, there are thousands of oil customers out there right now with 1.10 to 1.25 caps .(thank god) Price caps are a good thing.

todd s

fuel choice

Oil is the safer of the two. My 275 is in the basement right under my bedroom and I never worry about.

joel_14

gas price

you'd better check that gas price, find a buddy and look at his bill .they sometimes do fun stuff do like sure it's 60c a therm but we have a delivery charge of 3oc a therm then there is the service charge etc,etc,etc.

Mark A. Custis

Nice Job on the numbers

I think the energy business in general, like the health care business, do not want us to know how much they are charging. Check gas for your vehical this week.

I wish I believed we really want to get rid of the weopons of mass distruction, while North Korea nukes our guys in the south and Japan. Whats up in Venazula? We have all seen the Sherman M1 Tanks with oil company stickers. I've had three small pox vacinations and am immune as only the first reacted.

We, contractors and service people, and our suport business' suppliers manufacturers, on the other hand must sell ourselves at discount prices to get work.

In my next life I want to be either a monopoly or a bank., but until then I will be the best damn HVAC/Plumbing/Electrial contractor I can be. I can got broke typing to you guys, I don't have to go out and work to go broke.

Thanks for the vent.

Great numbers. Write a spread sheet to do the math and sell copies.

Mark

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Brian_19

Natural gas

I would definatly go with natural gas. Three reasons: less
noise, less maintenance, no oil smell. I would however
choose oil over LP.

John_13

Oil or Gas, so how does one make a decision

I've read the posts and am still confused. What should we be asking ourselves when
figuring out oil or gas? Is it preference? Is one heads over heals better than the
other? In NYC is oil cheaper than gas? Or can that question be even answered when
prices fluxuate for both? What are the pros and cons?
Can there be definite answers to the above questions?

Big Ed

You Forgot the added Surcharges

Forget the Keyspan website they neglect all the taxes or surcharges that are tacked on. It's the bottom line that counts.... Plus the fact that they can charge you more in a mild year .They state they charge less in a cold year but big deal ,Wall Street will drive it up anyway...Like I said , the bottom line....

J.C.A.

John,

The difinitive answer is the person installing and servicing the unit . If you use oil and they think that gas is a better choice, ask why. The cost of the total package can either cost you or end up paying for itself , in the long run.The true answer varies from reigon to reigon, but comfort is the bottom line . The person installing your heating system wants to see you as much as you want to see him .(waving while driving by each other is nice). The true comfort comes with the right people doing the job properly and having a satisfied customer. Chris