Trinty 150

[Deleted User]

My contractor really screw up in installing trinty 150 could someone help with piping, feeding upstairs 6 loops of radiant pex of about 1900' and downstairs with 8 loops of pex and about 2000' Thank you I belive the piping for the boiler is undersized

Ray M_2

Trinity

Fred,can you post a photo?

RayM

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[Deleted User]

photo trinty 150

photo of trinty 150 and piping is it right can anyone advise

Ray M_2

Trinity

Fred,who told you that the piping is right? You dont have a primary circulator.

LOL Ray M

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[Deleted User]

The 3 way valves...

are incorrectly piped. There does not appear to be a way for the cooler return water to get back to the heat source. I also don't see a primary boiler pump. What area of the world are you in? Maybe we can find someone to come advise you. Looks like there may be a lot more wrong than meets the eye.

It looks as if its a wannabe Primary/Secondary piped in parallel.

Those pumps look a little undersized as well.

Any chance of a clearer picture?

Funny thing is, the internal workings of this boilerlooks almost identical to the Munchkin and Vitodens. Check this out.

http://www.nythermal.com/Media/Docs/Pdfs/TrinityInsM.pdf

Their piping drawings leaves a lot to be desired. Doesn't appear that theve had a whole lot of experience in the radiant world.

ME

[Deleted User]

boiler

A local contractor that has installed 6 of these boilers in this area advised on the piping and did all of the wiring after I piped it, he stated that the boiler has it own pump installed in the unit. I called him and he came to look at it and still says it is right. I disagree, that is why I tried this site. Also local B&G rep stated to go with a bigger pump than the taco 007 now there is a B&G nrf -22 which has more head and more gpm.

Doug_5

Our installer used 2 Taco circulating pumps....one for the indirect zone and one for the single heating zone we operate for all of our hot water radiators. Turned out that we needed to use a bigger Taco pump for the indirect zone even though you would think that the same size or smaller would be enough for a 40 gallon indirect sitting right next to the boiler. Guess the reason is the "head" the indirect zone encounters in the indirect's stainless steel coil?

Ray M_2

Piping

Fred,I also install these boilers.They Do NOT have a pump built in.Do you have different requirements for water temperature each zone? If not lose the mixing valves and adjust the controller on the boiler.The boiler needs to be set up PRIMARY/SECONDARY PIPING.

LOL Ray M

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Doug_5

Mark, my installer loved the boiler but found the directions somewhat lacking. He appreciated the simplicity of the unit, and I suspect that NTI could sell buckets of these if they worked the trade a bit. I found the people at NTI very responsive to me as a homeowner, (especially since I found the product), but if I were them, I'd make sure I'd stay connected to the tradesperson who has handled a successful installation. Neither of us have heard from anybody since it went in. After 3 years of looking, I have no doubt that this should be a mass market product. Not just one for hi-efficiency types.

[Deleted User]

photo new with primary

Iam going with what the contractor is telling me and a rep from B&G I believe they are dead wrong that is why I asking .

[Deleted User]

Sample piping schematic..

Here's how I'd pipe it given the components you have on hand.

Dan Peel

Special piping for Trinity combos

The picture is of a T-150 C - it includes a built in plate exchanger for domestic and a built in 15-42 circ. The circ is wired to run for both primary loop and through an electric three way diverter for the domestic call. The domestic call stops all flow from the primary piping. The built in circ pumps into the boiler's heat exchanger and the only Mfg. approved place for installing an additional circ for the primary is between the expansion tank (as mounted) and the built in. I'd add a 26-64 or equal, wired to the blue wire and move the built in circ to the purple wire along with the zone valve. The circs then need to be rewired to drop out the second circulator to prevent deadheading during a domestic call. These are a nice little boiler but they do have high flow needs. Enjoy....Dan

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[Deleted User]

Can you...

tell us more of what your problem is, and also indicate the direction of flow on the pumps. There is an arrow cast into the body of the pump. Also, for the courtesy of those people not on DSL or cable, resize your photographs to a smaller format. It must take forever for a land line to load them puppies up.

We WILL get your problem resolved, one way or another.

Thanks for your patience.

ME

[Deleted User]

So Dan....

What you're saying is that we have two different sized pumps in series with each other. I still contend it's a confused primary/secondary design by someone who knows how to solder...

Without knowing pressure drops through the individual branches, it appears that the pump choices are undersized.

And, unless theres something not showing in the picture, the three way valves don't appear to be piped correctly. I see a "1" common return", but I don't see where the two are tied together.

How does Siggy say, Engineered soldering, or something to that affect...

ME

tim from Reed Wright

NTI trinity boilers

Are you located in a city that requires boiler permits. If you are, you may want to obtain a permit and then have the local authority check and see if the boiler has an ASME rating. FYI, just removed a NTI in our area that did not have a boiler certification as required by code. Along with numerous other shortfalls on the install.

Ray M_2

Trinity

After reading Dan Peels post i learned something new about The Trinity-"COMBI" we dont use this model, and i apologise for stating that the boiler has no build -in pump.Marks drawing is the way the unit should be piped if it were a standard 150.We use a indirect with its own circulator,and a separate circulator for the heating circuts.This is a nice boiler but needs to be piped correctly.


LOL Ray M

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Steve Miller

Trinity pumping

ME is right about the return on the three way valve needing to tee back into the primary and then to the cold side of the 3 way. I don't really see any way to purge your loops unless I'm missing something. Also I think the 007 and the B & G pump are perhaps undersized for your floor loops. Knowing the lenghts of the tubing in the floor you could figure in zone pumping instead of using a high head pump and having to use a differential pressure device. I think low or no flow and air are your problems. I would make the primary loop at least 1 1/4 or even 1 1/2 so the primary pump installed inside the boiler, has plenty of flow. A spirovent vent is a good investment too instead of the air scoop and auto vent you're using. Also, there has been a tech update from Trinity, they want a #30 pressuer relief valve on both the inlet and outlets to the boiler because of the 3 way priority zone valve of the boiler. I also noticed the vent and intake vent are going 2 different directions, they both need to terminate next to each other like in the drawings of the instructions. Finally, I see the condensate tube doesn't have a loop in it with a trap. That will eliminate the spitting noise you're probably hearing at the end of the hose. Did the installer have a gas analyzer to set up the combustion? Remember, we're here to help. Good luck!

Steve M

Dan Peel

Not quite

Hi Mark, What I'm saying is the principles of pumping away exist as piped. An additional circulator - sized for 100% of primary flow needs to be added between the exp tank and the boiler. The existing internal primary circulator needs to be dedicated to the domestic plate exchanger only. Each of the two heat distribution loops needs to be reviewed for their own heat delivery requirements. Im my geography the system may well be under piped, I have no clue as to where Fred is, or his heatloss, or his design flows, or his design temps. Fred piped this one on his own under the direction of his contractor if I read the original post correctly. Without alot more detail on what the system is doing (or not) this is just a fuzzy picture with annotations. Dan

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stevel

primary secondary

I've only got one question why are you using three way mix valves? for radiant heat? in combination with a condensing boiler that has built-in indoor outdoor reset control. Unless you need higher flows than the boiler can handle primary secondary is not completely necesscary. Use the condensing capabilities and you will get maximum effeciency from the boiler.