Bacharach or Testo?????

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

I bought mine from Steve Ebels (sebels@netonecom.net) a year or two ago and it has worked flawlessly up until a month ago when both the O2 and CO sensors failed; new sensors were $300, but for the number of times that I've used it, it is well worth it.

It's helped avoid health problems by detecting high CO levels and is able to tell me the condition of the boilers that we service here in the Bay Area. We just sold a boiler yesterday when I picked up CO levels of 10,800 ppm.

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antman

Need to purchase a combustion analyzer. I'm looking for feedback from anyone who may have good or bad experiences. I really would like a simple yet effective unit. Cost is second to performance and longevity. Please give me model #'s.

Thanks, Ant

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Mark Hunt

Very Expensive Repairs

We have two Bacharach pro 120 series combustion analyzers. They need to be sent to the factory every six months for calibration. One I just sent in it is seven months old and was showing O2 sensor error. They wanted $300.00 to repair, the unit cost about $800.00 new. My vendor is SID Harveys and I told them that according to the warranty it is covered for two years. They have not got back to me with a answer yet. I have checked out the Testo and it is self calibrating and does not need the one minute of run time outside to set it self up. I do not know the model number but check out the Testo's it looks like a better unit. To bad I had to find out the hard way.

Paul_6

I've been tire kicking too,

maybe Steve Ebels can weigh in with some info. I would be interested in price, durability, features, and availability on a testo 325-m. Paul.

Paul Pollets

Testo

We also have used a Testo 325 for 2 years and recently had to replace sensors. I still like the feature of printing a report for records and to show the owner exactly how the heating appliance is performing.
BTW, I just purchased another for backup.

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MURPH'

why dont you look over........

both web sites and gather as much info as you can, call the customer support lines and see how your call is treated. These units are most likely designed to need serviced so as to keep the revenue stream alive. I do not know about the imported versions, but bacharach promises a 48hour turnaround on repairs and service, and you can send them in to factory direct, rather than have a dealer fumble the order timewise !! Made here in the united states !!


Murph'

eddie grierson_3

Check out OilTechTalk.com

Ask those guys also. I have Bacarach and have been very happy, however I have not even had it a year. When you go to OTT put up a post for Alan, great guy he will help you out.


Eddie G.

Glenn Harrison

Darin,

Nothing against Sid's, but you should contact Bacharach directly for service, especially warranty. Go to:

Bacharach Website

and look up the new factory service center address and phone number. You also might want to contact Rudy Leatherman at rudy@eurekanet.com
He's one of the combustion teachers at Bacharach and a fellow Wallie.

By the way, my Testo 300XL has to be calibrated once a year, has a one minute warm up time, and should be warmed up in a non contaminated area (outside if neccesary). I would be interested in knowing what unit you read about that is Self calibrating and does not need a warm up.

Glenn Harrison, Residential Service Technician

Althoff Industries Inc.

Mechanical and Electrical Services

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Althoff Industries Website

Glenn Harrison

You got a good deal, Alan

I had to replace the O2 sensor last fall in my 300XL and the sensor cost me $225 from Testo, and I installed it my self. They also told me the CO sensor is $400.00+.

Glenn Harrison, Residential Service Technician

Althoff Industries Inc.

Mechanical and Electrical Services

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Althoff Industries Website

tim from Reed Wright

testo

testo, testo, testo. Was very unhappy with many Bacharachs over the years

Rudy

A few points

Just to clairify a few things.

First, O2 and CO sensors in Bacharach instruments are under warranty for two years in new instruments (One year for replacement sensors).

Sending the instrument directly to Bacharach service centers will get them back to you quicker.

The sensor manufacturers (there are only two on the planet) recommend the CO sensors be calibrated every six months, however, for most HVAC applications, once a year is sufficient. Also remember that when an instrument is calibrated, the software is also automatically upgraded to the most recent version.

With regards to a CO sensor 'self calibrating'. All this means is that once the 60 sec calibration period is over the display will read '0ppm', even if there is CO in the ambient air - the instrument 'assumes' the air drawn through the instrument is 'clean'.

The Fyrite Pro can be set up to do this or can be set up to do a 'manual' calibration, which means that the sensor will read 'actual' CO levels once the 60 second period is over - the Monoxor II also does a 'manual' calibration. This was done to provide a technician a warning that they may be in a basement or boiler room where a dangerous situation exists.

When a CO sensor is calibrated, the 'span' is adjusted. As a sensor ages, the accuracy is effected. The problem with a 'self calibrating' sensor is that if it sat on a shelf for some time before installation, it will not read accurately unless it is calibrated with calibration gas.

Also keep in mind that the life of a sensor will be extended considerably if the instrument is allowed to post purge after the last test. Allowing the instrument to run another 10 minutes or so will purge out acidic condensate as well as any remaining CO. The CO sensor has a chemical in it that reacts to the presence of CO, so if CO laden flue gasses remain in contact with the sensor it will continue to react even if the instrument is off.

I also recommend that when the CO reading gets much above one or two thousand ppms, get it out of the flue gas stream. The more CO it sees, the shorter it's life (although, like Alan said, a tremendously high reading can potentially sell a job!!).

It's the same with the O2 sensor and is why the O2 sensor doesn't last as long as the CO sensor (it's in the presence of oxygen all the time).

You should get 1 to 2 years out of an O2 sensor, 4 to 5 years out of a CO sensor.

Alot of this info is on the training website, if you haven't seen it go to www.bacharach-training.com .

Finally, if anybody ever, ever has a problem with one of our instruments, give me a call immediately (740-594-0033 - cell 412-576-1350). Also keep in mind that Bacharach has hired 5 ex-HVAC guys (like myself) to provide customer phone support (and technical training). If you have a CO or combustion problem you would like to discuss, don't hesitate to get in touch - it's the favorite part of my job!!
rudy

antman

Thanks for all the helpfull info!

Ant

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Mark A. Custis

Well done

Mark

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Mark A. Custis

I do not think, you

Qualify as Ex HVAC, yet. Get dug out?
Mark

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Glenn Harrison

I think that says it all!

Thanks for the info, Rudy.

Glenn Harrison, Residential Service Technician

Althoff Industries Inc.

Mechanical and Electrical Services

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Althoff Industries Website

Steve Ebels

Combustion analyzers

Paul Bock asked me to weigh in, (like I'm some authority or something) on Testo vs. Bach. I don't get into that and I don't go there. When I'm selling a boiler or furnace to someone, I sell what the product will do and what I will do for that customer and let them decide. One of the things that I "sell" to the customer is that we are the only company in these parts that has let alone uses an analyzer. This usually inspires a host of questions from the HO ranging from "what is it" to "can I see it." Presto! the door to the sale is open!!

As far as the Testo line is concerned, their basic residential/light commercial analyzer is the 325 series. It will read combustion efficiency, draft, Carbon dioxide, Carbon Monoxide, Oxygen and flue gas temp. It does this in real time so you can almost immediately see what the adjustments you're making are doing to the burner. It can be used with light oil, heavy oil, natural gas and propane fuels so it will encompass about anything you'll normally run across. The 300 XL is the step up unit that adds some features you would use on large industrial burners as well as measuring SO2 and NOX. You can also print reports on an available I/R printer for your records.

The service history on the two 325's I own myself has been excellent. The oldest one (3 season) has done literally hundreds of tests. Just in the last week it indicated that a sensor had failed. The first trouble/maintenance I've had with it. It is the best sales tool I've ever owned.
I'll even go as far as to say that NO technician should be without an electronic analyzer. There is just no better way to set up a burner. There is no other way to determine if that flame (that looks ok) is making CO by the ton.

Do you have to calibrate the unit in "clean" air? YES

Does the unit work best if kept warm? YES the sensors will last longer and you don't have to wait for 10 minutes + for everything to come up to temp.

Are the sensors field replacable? Yes, but if you send the unit to Testo they will install the sensors (in a 325) calibrate them to national standards and service whatever else needs attention on the meter for a labor fee of $75.


Are the sensors expensive? The sensor set for a 325 costs about $300. This my dear friends is a piece of your overhead and has to be built into your budget just like anything else. It's like, how many dolars do you put into you truck(s) in oil changes every year? It's just maintenance cost. Replacing a sensor isn't a defect situation usually. They are a part that wears out just like anything else.

Hope this helps

Glenn Harrison

Steve,

Is there a difference between the 325 and 300XL sensor that would explain the price difference? I replaced my O2 sensor myself last fall at a cost of $225 I believe, and was quoted $400+ for the CO sensor when I need it. I though all the Testo meters used the same sensor's.

Glenn Harrison, Residential Service Technician

Althoff Industries Inc.

Mechanical and Electrical Services

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Althoff Industries Website

Jim Davis

Combustion Analyzer

Testo & Bacharach are the 2 best. Neither are expensive to keep repaired or calibrated, if they are, someone is getting ripped off! Bacharach is much faster in response time to readings and adjustments. At NCI we use both, sell both and service both.

Glenn Harrison

Jim,

Would you please look at my two posts about Testo sensors and give me an answer since you service them both.

Thanks,

Glenn Harrison, Residential Service Technician

Althoff Industries Inc.

Mechanical and Electrical Services

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Althoff Industries Website

heatboy

I love my Testo 300 M!

I have owned for a couple of years and it has worked flawlessly. I have replaced the O2 sensor, but that is to be expected. I will upgrade to the NOx sensor when it becomes mandatory. My only complaint is the regional Testo guy has been.............let's say, less than responsive when it comes to the computer software for it. I'm still waiting for my discounted software coupon that was promised when I purchased the analyzer. Steve, maybe I can purchase the software from you?

I'm sure Bacharach has testers as good as Testo. So, I don't think you'll make a bad choice with either.

hb

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Earthfire

check

out e bay item# 2310033413 there are a couple other analyzers on there too.I own a PCA 55 and like it. A buddy has a Testo325 &he likes it .Both serve the purpose.Would never go back to the old oilly fyrite type testers.

Unknown

Combustion Analyzers

I am trying to get a donation of a Testo 325 or a TPI 712 to my training center. We would like to be able to show all the different testers. I have had one donated by Bacharach and want to thank Rudy Leatherman for his help.

Even if it is an old one but still working we will take it.

antman

So far Paul and Alan have stated that they have had to replace the sensors after only 1-2 years on there Testo 325's that seems pretty quick if you ask me, howver a guess if you use them often that is expected, Bacharach claims on ther website the their sensors last 4-5 years. Anyone care to confirm or deny this claim. Looking over the web sites I really like the Bacharach PCA, Anyone have this model? Aprox.cost? This unit has a 2 year warranty including sensors.

Thanks again everyone, Ant

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Rudy

Sensor life

The CO sensor should last 4-5 years, the O2 sensor should last 1-2 years.

Also keep in mind that the O2 sensor can be replaced by the customer but the CO sensor (to insure accuracy) needs to be calibrated when newly installed.

Paul_6

Thanks for the response

steve. "The Company" just picked up a bacharach electronic, but I have little hope for its survival. I figure in about six months it will look like the co. owned wet kits. Ive found over the last 18 years with them that the best way to have good reliable test equipment is to buy it, and keep it in my truck, and never loan it out. I have a bacharach wet kit that does o2 and co2, and a fluke co detector that has an aspirator, but I would very much like to upgrade to an electronic analyzer, so I will e-mail you directly with a couple of questions. thanks for taking the time to respond, Paul.

Rudy

you might be suprised

I've seen instruments that looked like they have been dipped in fuel oil and soot, even one that the case had gotten so hot the back of the instrument was melted, yet they kept on ticking.....

Jim Davis

Testo Sensors

Glenn, Will be talking to Bill Spohn at Testo on Monday. Will reply with latest.

Glenn Harrison

Thanks, Jim

I appreciate the effort.

hot_rod

Bacharach

Teh support, both from the website and personally from Bob and Rudy made the Bach a clear choice for me.

Ford vs Chevy for features, I think. But the years of experience and easy access to tech help makes a huge difference when you are new to testers, and testing, as I am.

hot rod

ScottMP

Which one ??

I am ready to purchase one of these units and was excited to see every ones remarks.

Sounds to me like both of these units are good products and I probable want to find who has the best rep. in my area.

Its seems to me you can't go wrong with either one.

Scott

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antman

After much research online, advice from people here on the wall, and speaking with Rudy Leatherman (who contacted me, and was very helpful with helping me make my choice)I have decided to go with the Bacharach Fyrite pro125.

Hopefully Alan Mercurio will be able to assit me in making my purchase. How can you not help but enjoy keeping everything within this family. Well thanks to all who gave input to this subject, it was very helpful.

Ant

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John Abbott

Good decision..

I bought my Fyrite Pro 125 from Alan and have been very happy with the unit.

John

Jim Davis

Testo Sensors

The O2 sensor for most Testo meters is about $119 and file replaceable. The CO sensor is $225 and is field replaceable and calibrateable without special gas or tools.