Insurance pay for flooded boiler???

Unknown

manufacturers liability and the service person dealing with the customer. If the service person knows what they are doing they do not need to replace the equipment most of the time.

If they do not know what they are doing they should not be there in the first place.

I realize with that statement that in the real world that is not the way it is. I can dream can't I ?

I understand the GAMA statement and its purpose. If this spring is what I think it is going to be and we follow the rules you better have thousands of boilers and furnaces ready.

Patchogue Phil_5

Insurance pay for flooded boiler?

Anyone have experience/knowledge of homeowners insurance paying for replacement of a rain-flood damaged boiler?

After the 24 inches of snow we received here on Long Island last week we got 3 inches of torential rains on Saturday. My sis-in-laws basement got flooded by the rainwater and the boiler was in 12+ inches of water, subsequently it shutdown.

It's an ancient Bryant gas boiler with coil. I couldn't even find a model number. It's pre 1967 cause thats an entry on the service log sticker.

There are 6 tubes for gas underneath with the pilot apparatus in the middle. The low voltage gets to the pilot assembly but nothing comes back to open the gas valve.

Anyway, they called in a repairman and he said they dont make that pilot assembly anymore. They had to have a new boiler installed.

It's after the fact, and they will be better off with a new boiler anyway, but does this sound "right"? I mean, if my oil fired burner head goes bad I can get a new gun without replacing the whole boiler.

Back to the main question, does homeowners insurance ever cover damaged heating equiptment from rain water flooding?

I remember about a friends house..... their boiler cracked due to dry firing after the waterfeed pipe broke. The insurance paid for the boiler but wouldn't pay for the feed pipe repair itself.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Check with agent but...

...I've never read a homeowners policy that covered ANYTHING damaged by "act of God" flooding.

Even flooding caused by the domestic water system has LOTS of exclusions for coverage.

Unknown

If you get me some control

numbers I can probably match up a pilot for you. Really no need most of the time to replace a boiler because of flooding. You may have to clean out burners and replace some controls (especially if they were underwater). i am sure I can come up with a pilot for you, most of thsoe systems used a Bryant Bi-metal pilot.

Some homeowner policies cover flooding I would get in touch with agent. Also a good idea to take some photos when the flooding is present.

Patchogue Phil_5

Thanks....

.... for the offer. They went ahead and got a new boiler system. In long run, they will be better off considering the age of the old one altho it was working otherwise.

It isn't a convenient time for them to spend $4000.00+. Just seemed a bit odd to me that the pilot assembly could not be retrofitted (as per repairman). Could have bought them some time before full system replacement.

Oh well.

Steve Levine

Are you sure

that it was only the piloty assembly that was defective? Most will tell you not to repair a boiler that has been flooded. Are yo sure the gas valve, an important operating and safety device is still perfect?

They should call their agent about insurance and you should be relieved that they are not trying to use a boiler that was flooded.

Patchogue Phil_5

Sure I am sure.

Like I said, in the long run they are better off with a whole new boiler setup.

Everything else was said to be working, except the pilot assembly. That was as high as the water reached. I was there when the first guy (Sun nite) said he didnt have the part. 2nd guy (Monday - I wasnt there) said cant get the part no longer made... you need a new boiler.

Unknown

Why can't you repair a boiler that was

flooded??? I think somebody wants to sell someone a boiler. If we replaced every flooded boiler here in New England in the spring there would be thousands getting changed.

Someone should have repaired this boiler no if ands or buts about it.

My experience with those old Bryant boilers is that they last a long time. Pilots are still being made for them I am sitting here with one in my hand.

Too bad $4,000 instead of $24.95 plus labor.

I do not call that giving good service to a customer.

Patchogue Phil_5

I agree

with you 100%. Even if all gas controls and the circulator were replaced it would be WAY WAY WAY less than $4000 !

Oh well... too late now.

Steve Levine

Just quoting

a GAMA press release used any time an area has flooded conditions. I personally think it should be followed unless repairs are made by a especially well qualified technician that carefully checks all functions after repair, especially safety related ones.


"Flood-Damaged Appliances Should Be Replaced, Experts Warn

Contact: Christine Hasselius
Phone:(703) 525-7060 ext. 229
Web site: www.gamanet.org
E-mail: information@gamanet.org



ARLINGTON, VA - All flood-damaged plumbing, heating, cooling and electrical appliances and related systems should be replaced, rather than repaired, warns the Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association (GAMA). The organization representing all major producers of natural and LP gas equipment also strongly recommends that all work on flooded equipment be performed by a qualified, licensed contractor, not by homeowners.

The GAMA warning stems from past reports of accidents resulting from improper do-it-yourself repairs of flood-damaged appliances. One homeowner, for example, suffered severe burns in a flash fire that occurred when he tried to re-light the pilot on his flooded gas water heater. The Association stresses that not only gas equipment is at risk, but also units using oil or electricity as the energy source.

"Controls damaged by flood water are extremely dangerous," notes GAMA President Evan R. Gaddis". Attempts to use equipment with defective gas or oil control devices can result in fires, flashbacks or explosions. And in the case of electric appliances, the result can be injury or even death from a powerful electric shock." The GAMA official noted that devices at risk include water heaters, furnaces, boilers, room heaters and air conditioners.

The Association stresses that the repair of flooded appliances and related systems (including damaged venting and electrical connections) is not a job for the do-it-yourselfer, no matter how skilled. This is particularly true of control valves, according to GAMA officials. These components are manufactured to extremely close tolerances. Once submerged in flood water, they must be replaced. Field repairs should never be attempted by the homeowner.

Even when controls appear to be operative, the unit should not be used after flood waters recede. "It may work for a while," Gaddis explains, "but it will deteriorate over time. It might take a week, a month, or even a year, but once any control has been under water, it presents a serious hazard...fire or explosion in the case of gas controls, fire or shock in the case of electric equipment."

Because so many things can go wrong as a result of flood water, it's usually cheaper, and always safer to replace, rather than repair, Gaddis stresses. "You can have a control valve replaced, but there may be damage to other parts of the unit, like venting, piping, burners and insulation. There are just so many things that can go wrong, the wise choice is always to start over with new equipment," the GAMA official declared.

In some instances, government aid may be available to help consumers finance the replacement of flood-damaged heating equipment. For information, homeowners should contact any of the offices of the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA), set up to help flood victims."

Unknown

I do not agree

that equipment needs to be replaced. I do agree that professional help should be sought to make REPAIRS AND REPLACEMENT OF CONTROLS IS MANDATORY.

Remember who GAMA is Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association, they want to sell equipment. I understand their concern for safety and whole heartedly agree that only a pro should deal with this problem. If this was done we would be replacing thousands of heating systems every year in Rhode Island alone. I live in an area that has had over 400 homes with water in basements from flooding at numerous times in the last 20 years, I have three sump pumps in my basement. We would be replacing our systems every year.

REPAIR AND REPLACE CONTROLS ABSOLUTELY. REPLACE SYSTEMS NOT NECESSARILY.

FEMA has never assited anyone who has had water damage from flooding here in Rhode Island. The only way they will assist is if you are declared a disaster area. I have worked on thousands of flooded systems in my career and very rarely was it necessary to replace the entire heating equipment. Any control that has been underwater should be replaced, no exceptions.

Mark J Strawcutter

it depends

gee, I got to say that twice in one week :-)

most policies around here do not cover water damage from external sources unless a covered failure allowed the damage (ie wind blows roof off, resultant rainwater damage is covered).

Federal flood insurance is required to cover such damage, and even then it can be problematic - you need to show a "condition of general flooding" which usually means the water has to come in thru the basement windows.

We had a rider ($50/yr) on the policy for a previous home that covered damage due to sewer and drain backup. Had one claim that made it worth it - 3 guys for 12 hours from a reclamation company - but the insurance company needed confirmation that the water didn't come thru the foundation or up thru floor cracks.

Mark

Steve Levine

I agree and disagree

Unfortunately the percentage of so called technicians who repair these products, that would check all componenets out thoroughly, or replace all of them, is not as high as I would be comfortable with. That is why GAMA makes the kind of statement they do.
Steve

Joannie

ANSI Standard

As an FYI, the boiler certification standard, ANSI Z21.13, instructs boiler manufacturers to put the following statement in User Information Manuals:

"Do not use this boiler if any part has been under water. Immediately call a qualified service technician to inspect the boiler and to replace any part of the control system and any gas control which has been under water."

The GAMA statement was stronger than that, because of the number of problems that have occurred after boilers have been flooded and someone has attempted to fix them.

I know that something many people forget is that a boiler has more than just controls. Refractory tiles and blankets can degrade when they've been wet (depending upon the material used), and may need to be replaced, also.

Please understand that this is a tough call for a manufacturer. When I am asked about a boiler that's been under water, I can honestly say that I don't think in terms of another sale. With people running off to lawyers to sue everyone for everything, my first thought is "what could go wrong?" It's very difficult for us to put in writing that if you change this component and that component, the boiler will be fine. And we are asked to put these things in writing all the time.

Joannie
Laars Heating Systems

Steve Levine

Right on!

NM

tim from Reed Wright

pilot assembly/ bad boiler?????

I for the life of me cannot figure how a pilot assembly can be cashed in for a new boiler. Can you say, oh maybe I should have gotten a second opinion. > numbers I can probably match up a pilot for you.

> Really no need most of the time to replace a

> boiler because of flooding. You may have to clean

> out burners and replace some controls (especially

> if they were underwater). i am sure I can come up

> with a pilot for you, most of thsoe systems used

> a Bryant Bi-metal pilot.

>

> Some homeowner

> policies cover flooding I would get in touch with

> agent. Also a good idea to take some photos when

> the flooding is present.

Rodney Koop

needed to be replaced!

It may have been repairable, but the correct solution is to inform the customer that repairs at any price are wasted on an over 30 year old boiler. The customer needed to replace this unit and this was a good time to do it. Money spent on repairs even if only 20.00 is wasted on a unit this old. My opinion and only my opinion is there is no such thing as a "safe" 40 year old heating system.

Glenn Harrison

In my neck of the woods,

you would had to have upgraded thesystem to a 100% shutoff system. Now that pilot burner just became a more major repair just to make the gas company happy. How much would this repair and a cleaning and drying of the boiler cost, $500, maybe a $1000? Hard to say. Is it worth puting that kind of money into a 35 year old boiler, NO IMHO. Anothe thing to remember is that ANY gas or electical component that got wet has to be replaced, and with 12 inches of water, I find it VERY hard to believe that only the bi-metal pilot got wet. I'm thinking this boiler needed to be replaced, but the reason the technician gave was wrong.

Just my honest opinion.