Zone Valve selection & inventory

Glenn Harrison

Can you post me a link to the Erie hydronic products website(s) so I can get a little more familiar with the products Erie has available.

Thank You

Glenn Harrison, Residential Service Tech

Althoff Industries Inc. Mechanical and Electrical Services

Crystal Lake, Illinois

<a href="http://www.althoffind.com" target="_blank">Althoff Industries website</a>

Art Pittaway_2

Zone valve selection & inventory

Currenty there are at least 3 questions about zone valves banging, not working properly or sized wrong. Most are answered correctly by other wallies. I work for Invensys, the parent company of Erie Zone Valves. Like Dan, I also spent many years with B&G, so I know proper sizing of a circulator is a constant battle for many contractors and engineers.
Honeywell, Danfoss, and others have the same problems as Erie when valves are installed backward, oversized, or the pump head is way to much.

Question:
What method do you use to size a zone valve?
Do you know what Cv means and do you use it?

Do the manufacturers give you enough charts, education and data to properly size, and install a valve? What more can we do?

Do your wholesalers provide knowledgeable help with sizing and installation or is it "take the biggest one and be safe!"

Do you only stock complete valve and actuator assemblys or do you try to stock a mix and match of the most often used? Why or what is your reasoning for what you stock?

What is the reason for choosing a brand, price, no call backs, same as what you find installed, local stock, good installation instructions?

Any other comments would be appreciated.
art.pittaway@invensys.com

Boilerpro_2

Hi ya, Art

> Currenty there are at least 3 questions about

> zone valves banging, not working properly or

> sized wrong. Most are answered correctly by other

> wallies. I work for Invensys, the parent company

> of Erie Zone Valves. Like Dan, I also spent many

> years with B&G, so I know proper sizing of a

> circulator is a constant battle for many

> contractors and engineers. Honeywell, Danfoss,

> and others have the same problems as Erie when

> valves are installed backward, oversized, or the

> pump head is way to much.

>

> Question: What

> method do you use to size a zone valve? Do you

> know what Cv means and do you use it?

>

> Do the

> manufacturers give you enough charts, education

> and data to properly size, and install a valve?

> What more can we do?

>

> Do your wholesalers

> provide knowledgeable help with sizing and

> installation or is it "take the biggest one and

> be safe!"

>

> Do you only stock complete valve

> and actuator assemblys or do you try to stock a

> mix and match of the most often used? Why or what

> is your reasoning for what you stock?

>

> What is

> the reason for choosing a brand, price, no call

> backs, same as what you find installed, local

> stock, good installation instructions?

>

> Any

> other comments would be

> appreciated. art.pittaway@invensys.com

Boilerpro_2

Hi ya, Art

I am now using more zone valves than I used too due to the fact that most pumps are much too large for the zone loads I work with. Also, I usually use full water temperature reset, so most of the zones are calling for heat much of the time, keeping a larger pump operating in its efficient operating range.
I use the Invensys valves due to reasonable pressure drops for smaller loads and competative pricing fronm a reliable wholsaler.... not enough experience with them yet to determine life expectancy. I also plan on using valves that fail open to help prevent freeze ups.
I use White Rodgers valves on large zones due to the fact they offer almost no flow resistance and I have found them to provide long life.... they were used throughout my father's apartment buildings in Chicado with a very low failure rate, even after 20 years of use.
I know how to size them using the CV ratings or the equivalant length of pipe pressure drops, pump charts, circuit lengths, heat loads, and delta tee across loop. I keep a one of each brand on hand in the 3/4 inch size.

Hope this helps.

Boilerpro

hot_rod

some zone valve thoughts

since you asked. I switched to Erie about 8 years ago. Excellent track record, so far. One confusing point when I installed my first on.. the arrows going opposite directions are a head scratcher

I'd like to see all zone valve have some verbage in the installation dealing with PAB's and the how and whys to them.

I like a nice indicator to show the valver is, #1 powered up and #2 a way to prove the end switch is made, other than that floppy feeling lever! Although i understand the cost issues with "dolling them up"

I'm taking a serious look at the new Danfoss, although the slow open and close of heat pill type valves is time consuming when troubleshooting. I like the colored pop up to indicate the valve is open. Also like the fact Danfoss has the balls to call it a Stellantrieb mit Endschalter in the US market

I just recently switched to Taco zone control boxes to simplify the wiring and neaten up the wiring. The lights are nice for troubleshooting, however I wish the were mounted front facing.

Seems all zone valve manufactures should build, buy, or private label a control like the Taco.

hot rod

Art Pittaway_2

PAB...?

HR, I know when you tell us what it means I'm going to groan and say "I knew that!"
Does the Boiler Boss series of controls qualify? We know they have been around for a long time and don't have some of the whistles and bells others have.
Thanks,
Art

heatboy

Pressure Activated By-Pass?

my guess ;-)

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Art Pittaway

Here's the address

http://www.invensysibs.com
This will take you to all the Invensys Building Systems sites. We build all Erie right here in the Loves Park (Rockford) facility. Also, Globe Valves thru 6", Ball Valve assemblies, electronic and pneumatic actuators, Boiler Boss, B.A.S. components, etc.
Art

Glenn Harrison

Thanks, Art I'll check that out real soon.

By the way, can you confirm somethign for me. I have heard that parts are no lnoger available for the older Dole zone valves(ZVC series I think). Since Erie bought out Dole, is this true, Dole zone valves are no longer available? Just trying to get a once and for all final answer, as we have a lot of old Dole zone valves around here.

Glenn Harrison, Residential Service Tech

Althoff Industries Inc. Mechanical and Electrical Services

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Althoff Industries website

Art Pittaway

Dole Company, I stand corrected!

As far as I have found out, Dole was not purchased by this company at any time in the past. I asked if we had private labeled zone valves for Dole and the answer was no. We would be happy to sell replacements for the entire assembly, but no parts are available.
Oooops..!!
Dole is part of the Appliance div., now that makes sense. Actually the appliance parts div. bought some companies from Eaton many years ago and Dole came with the package.
Among others, South Side Controls carries parts for Dole zone valves. Give one of their branches a call and they should be able to help.

Art

Art Pittaway

Dole Zone Valves, Parts are available

The "Ooops" post is an Edit and they don't go to the top of the list. I need to correct the statement I made about DOLE Zone Valves.
I talked to the Rep in Chicago who distributes through most of the wholesalers in Chicago Area.
Only the Upper assy. and the Heat motor are available as parts. If the valve body is bad you need to replace the whole unit. In Chicago if you need info call:
W.R.Wallin & Assoc., Jack Wallin, 630-469-8480
For the rest of the country go to the Web....
invensysappliance.com, "customer service", "product literature", and scroll down to "specialty".
For a contact: "Contact us", "Offices", "Regional Offices"
will give you a regional office that should direct you to a distributor.

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Zone valve selection

We've gone through many manufacturers: Honeywell, Erie, Taco and now Danfoss. I used to install whatever my supplier had in stock and they would drop one line and take on another every few years.

I usually choose a zone valve based on pipe size and Cv although I usually don't do the math; too lazy and hydronic heating in general has a lot of room for error.

Like hr, I aslo like a valve with a positive on-off and an indicator; that's what made the Taco ESP zone valves so attractive, but we had too many problems with them and they are noisy.

I just ordered a couple of Danfoss ZCP and had them add some of their zone valves to try out. From good feedback from other contractors, I think they will become our default zone valve.

Alan

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"