Wetheads- Need help

Dana

I would have no problem converting a boiler,(anyones who would work with the rest of the system), to milli-volt. Just keep in mind what Glenn said above about warranties.

Louie

Wetheads-Need Help

I have a building with a gas converted coal boiler in it that is still gravity. The burner is a old Roberts Gordon,that has a millivolt gas valve and a standing pilot. There is roughly 2000sq of floor space with old CI radiators. One catch, the building has no electric and never will. How do I pipe a newer style boiler into the system so it will work as gravity. I want to get rid of that old pig with something that has better heating qualities. Remember, no electricity!
Thank you for any help.
Louie

KevMcG

Just a thought

but have never tired it and am curios to see what others would think. Maybe get a steam boiler (for the 2" tappings)
convert it to millivolt with millivolt replacement parts and make it a hot water millivolt boiler?
any other opinions on this?

Steamhead

Lou, how much heat

does the building need? And why doesn't it have electricity?

This sounds like a fascinating project. We did a Give and Get on unreliable or nonexistent electricity and how it would affect a heating installation, if I remember correctly. I'll see if I can find it.

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Boilerpro_2

I believe Burnham has boilers

designed for gravity flow. I beleive the 2 B series can be had with large tappings. A Weil Mclain EG might also work....2-3inch tappings. Glen Stanton is the main to talk to here at the Wall about the Burnhams.


Boilerpro

Unknown

Your biggest obstacle

is going to be finding a boiler that has millivolt or self generating controls. These have been off the market since about 1985 and are no longer available direct from any manufacturer. We do in fact manufacture a hot water boiler with 2" tappings (by special order) for use in gravity situations, but the control systems are all 24 volt. There is nothing we can do to stop someone from retrofitting the boiler with millivolt controls, but it is something that we would desire you not do. If this were to be done in the field, the third party certification of the boiler would no longer be valid and any liability issues associated with the boiler would be waived. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Burnham Hydronics

steve_6

gravity hot water systems

are still being installed today. I was talking to my supply house not to long a go about using millivolt systems. he told me he's got an Amish heating contractor doing about 4 gravity " radiant floor" systems a month doing millivolt conversions on Burnham boilers. I'm not sure by your post if your system is hotwater or steam but most standard boilers can be converted to millivolt. Effikal has even come out with a millivolt flue damper. So much for these systems being inefficient

MIKE6

why no juice??

What is this building usedfor?No lights? Why can't it have electric?How about a natural gas powered generator that makes electricity.Can you build a Heat plant next to the building and pipe in the heat,and have electric in a remote building.
Mike

Unknown

Steve

That happens to be one exception to the rules spelled out to us by the overseeing agencies. If you are indeed Amish you do have the exemption working in your favor because ......well, you probably do not have any power to the house or barn. hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Burnham Hydronics

Bill Wright_2

Steve,

I've been on several jobs using EG's configured just as you described ... but, Glen is correct, the "mili-volt" safeties still require a 24 v gas valve. This would be a field modifcation w/ all the ramifications that Glen outlined.

Bill W.

Bill Wright_2

Steve,

I've been on several Amish jobs using W-M EG's configured just as you described (including a no electricity in floor radiant system)... but, Glen is correct, the "mili-volt" safeties still require a 24 v gas valve. This would be a field modifcation w/ all the ramifications that Glen outlined.

Bill W.

Louie

Gravity Hot Water

Thank you to everyone who responded. I am not Amish,I got
a good laugh out of that, but I would love to see a gravity
radiant floor system. I wonder how that would work?
The building has no electric because it needs a new service and wiring. I use the buiding for storage only but
I keep it heated to protect the structure and it's contents. Usually around 45 degrees. I didnt know they still made boilers with 3" tappings, that would be perfect!
The controls I could switch around to millivolt and that would solve my problem.
Thanks again to everyone.
Louie

steve_6

not amish

just heard the story from the supply house.We have done conversions on existing boilers by the customers request. This person states that the area neighborhood he lives in, loses power quite often. We do understand the ramifications you mentioned.Glenn do you have a copy of those exeptions, I would be interested to see them. thanks Steve

steve_6

3 inch tappings

Weil Mclain and Hb Smith I,m pretty sure have these tappings. Dunkirks and Slant fins have 2 1/2 "

Jerry Boulanger

How about a set-up..

using a solar panel, a deep cycle battery like a marine battery, and a small inverter to supply just enough AC for the controls on the new boiler. Shouldn't need more than about 75 watts. This is what I have on my sailboat - the solar panel is 15 watts.

Mark A. Custis

What a great idea, do

you want a royalty if this makes me a godzillionaire?

Thanks,

Mark

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Louie

Gravity Hot Water

I have a 400 watt inverter sitting on the shelf in that
building, what a great idea! It's as good as done.
Thanks Again. Louie

Unknown

Steve

The third party agencies that we use to certfy our boilers tests the boilers as configured for either 24 volt standing pilot, 24 volt spark ignition or 24 volt hot surface ignition. All of the guidelines pertaining to this certification are spelled out by that agency and is printed in the Installation and Operation manual that is shipped with the boiler. We presently use ETL for certification and testing of our equipment.

The underlying factor hat pertains to millivolt control systems is that there has to be redundant high limit controls to safeguard against a runaway boiler in manual operation mode. On our hot water boilers, we had a thermistor in the aquastat well to serve this purpose and an extra pressuretrol to serve as backup in steam applications. Both of these devices had to be wired to interrupt the pilot in the event of an overheat condition. We found way too many instances in the field where these devices were either jumper out or removed due to tripouts. Not a good situation at all and a very serious safety concern! Hope this helps.

Glenn

[Deleted User]

A little help for my friends...

I just designed a system for a customer of ours who is utilizing PV for his off grid home. To keep the inverter from staying awake trying to satisfy the trickle needs of a 24 volt transformer, use line voltage thermostats with 120 volt zone valves. Tie the zone valve end switches to the boilers TT circuits, and unless something is calling for heat, the whole system is shut completely down. Not using one iota (Italian for watt) of electricity. No unnecessairly awakend inverters...

Pretty simple eh...

ME

greg_7

Interesting subject... By the way is there a minimum size tapping for gravity flow on a boiler?

Duncan_2

Beautifully simple.

And simply beautiful. An engineer-type might describe it as 'Elegant in its simplicity'.

Wish I'd'a thought of that! It doesn't get much better, Mark - nicely done.

Using a Trace inverter with adjustable 'wake-up' voltage threshold? What current level does it need to wake up? What kind of current does a 120V zone valve draw?

More... more!