Less confusion

Unknown

In order to keep debate and confusion to a minimum in the future I feel it would best serve this site if all questions on gas combustion and gas servicing be directed to National Comfort Institute.

My e-mail traffic and the confusion caused by the different approach that I take to servicing gas and combustion issues has only caused many of you to question the way you do things. That is not my purpose nor my plan and never will be. It may well be that time and technology has passed me by. I try to stay up to date with what is happening but am not sure I can with out the opportunity to get involved with the inside people who have all the answers.

The national recognition and attention that NCI has gained certainly gives them much more credibility in this area than I will ever have.

I am only a one person training facility and find the intense competition for students and trying to gain credibility to be overwhelming.

I feel I owe it to those amazing people who are on this site to make sure they get the correct information that is timely and up to date on what is happening with gas equipment and service.

Mark A. Custis

Do you mean

the NCI in beautiful downtown Sheffield Lake, OH.?

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MURPH'

bullcrap timmie.......

we need everyone to question the way they do things all the time, everytime. you have a nitche in what you teach in the control diagnostics, these guys could not care less. Half of thier biz is duct balancing and cures, you probaly could not care less. everytime i have questions, lots of times i question the answers. I see nothing wrong with that. as far as the one man band thing, that hump is always the toughest to overcome cause you cannot trust anyone else (nor could afford)to deliver your teachings the way you want/need to !! as far as the new technology thing goes, you cannot tell me that any of this is beyond your grasp, just take a step back and catch your breath!! you have a passion for this work that cannot be matched, but no need to give everything for free all the time !!


my saturday rambles
Murph'

Glen

The discussion has been fair -

the questions honest - but I don't think time or technology has passed either you or me. And I don't think we are debating whether the world is flat or round. Gas safety is my biz too - and if the new kid on the block has the latest gizmo to sell - questions need to asked and answered. As a commercial and industrial gasfitter - I am in touch with any number of agencies that keep me in touch with the world - and none are even close to suggesting what NCI is offering. Keep the questions coming Timmie - we're just getting our second wind.

Unknown

Much thought

has gone into my decision. I will not debate any longer on these issues.

Unknown

Glenn thank

you but no thanks. If this is going to be done corretly their can only be one direction.

Unknown

Mark I do not

know their location, sorry.

Jim Davis

Not Confusion-Excellent Debate

Timmie, hopefully when someone teaches they always teach from experience not hearsay. One may never experience all there is to know, therefore we depend on others for their input. It is through like this that we should learn how to get the message out to others better. Some responders may be rowdier than others but atleast we are getting them to react. NCI does plan to get with you soon and hope to work together. Wish you could make it to Boston next week.

Jim Davis

Not Confusion-Excellent Debate

Timmie, hopefully when someone teaches they always teach from experience not hearsay. One may never experience all there is to know, therefore we depend on others for their input. It is through (discussions) like this that we should learn how to get the message out to others better. Some responders may be rowdier than others but atleast we are getting them to react. NCI does plan to get with you soon and hope to work together. Wish you could make it to Boston next week. We are in Sheffield Lake.-Corrected!

Mark A. Custis

Jim: I thought

you where in the Cincinnatti area.

Mark

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Mark A. Custis

Timmie:

I need to get my head out of the Lake Erie sand if these guys are across the street from a family owned building.

Mark

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MURPH'

COMN' MARK

sheffeild lake isn't that big, I waved as i went past your house, but you no see me !!heres link http://www.ncinstitute.com/

gotta lern my http stuff


Murph'

Mark A. Custis

Long time not type to:

I hate when world famous events go on across the street. Congats to the birthday boy. Self-employment is only a half day job, any 12 hours will do right. Have been busy trying to pay myself what I am worth.

So what do these guys do? I called and talked about 20 minuetes to someone, and came away clueless.

Mark

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Unknown

I will continue to teach

in my seminars what I have learned in over 40 years working with gas. I will not however be discussing it here on the Wall. The reason is the many e-mails I have received from those who do not necessarily post here on the Wall but listen in. They are not real knowlegable about gas and combustion. They asked me to explain your methods which I can not do. I can only tell them what I do. I have really never gotten you to answer my questions. With that I am not going to post anymore information about gas combustion or servicing gas equipment on this site. It is not solving anything it is only confusing those novices whom I am very careful and have always been careful to bottle feed knowledge not try to feed someone steak who is still being weaned.

You may very well have solved the long standing problems we have had with combustion and the proper adjustments to it. I am not an engineer and my education is very limited in combustion engineering. My thing is and will continue to be service and solving heating problems as related to gas. Your knowledge and NCI credibility would perhaps suffer a little or perhaps a lot if every time you say something I disagree simply because of my own ignorance or lack of ability on the subject. I consider you and NCI to be the experts in this field of gas combustion and servicing of gas control systems. That along with Bacharach and many others who post here, as I read and follow the postings I find myself in awe of others and there knowledge. It will serve better if I just watch and learn with what others have to offer.

I am ever learning but never really coming to the knowledge of truth. Truth is what we seek and many times in life and in our business it is hard to find.

I will continue to invite people who post here to my seminars, they make the choice as to who will educate them. I contantly find myself having to compete with many alternatives to what I offer in the way of education. If I had my way everyone would have to go to school for four yrars before they could be left alone to touch gas equipment.

I have great respect for you and your company and this is my decision. It has nothing to do with "rowdys" or those who feel they have to get nasty to protect their ideas. I do not let people like that affect my decisions in life.

In time perhaps when I feel comfortable and learn more about your methods I may return to the discussion and perhaps be a supporter of your methods not a detractor.

I hope everyone understands.

Steamhead

Don't Give Up, Tim!

I would never have learned as much as I have without you. Thanks to you (and all who have participated in the CO debate) I can do a much better job. I've had the opportunity to get out in the field with this knowledge, see what works and what doesn't.

I completely disagree that you've been "passed by". Combustion is combustion and you've been working with it for decades. That's more than most of us can say. I have read your manuals, tried your methods and they WORK. What better recommendation? Sure, it's not the same as attending a seminar, but it's better than the seat-of-the-pants approach.

To those of you who keep e-mailing Tim with questions: BUY HIS MANUALS. Tim has the same writer's gift that Dan Holohan has and you will not regret your purchases. And come to his seminars- I'm sure they're as good as his books.

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Jim Davis

Work in Sheffield Lake, live in Cincy for time being. Be there this week. Stop in and say hi.

Jim Davis

Questioning what someone says is not arguing. I tell everyone in class there are two types of people- the ignorant and the stupid. Ignorant people want to learn everything they do not know. Stupid people have the opportunity to learn but refuse. No matter how good we think we may be, we will always be ignorant learners. But that is better than a stupid moron. I do wish everyone would respond on the wall and not your E-mail. To have a puzzle with a thousand pieces has little value without all the pieces. I can only explain things to a certain point and in most cases touch on them lightly in this format. I cannot give my classes here any more than you can give yours. I would bet your knowledge goes way beyond what you may believe or express. Pursuit of the truth should never be considered a shortcoming or fault. There is only one truth but a million ways to express it.

Unknown

What I give are

clear and concise answers to the questions I am asked. I also give away a lot of free advice and consulting. I am sure many will tell you that they have gotten free material from me. I also make all my material that I cover in class available here and on other sites for a reasonable price. The reason many do not respond on the Wall about the recent discussions is because they feel very inadequate and confused by so much information with out direct step by step instructions. As a service man entering customers homes to solve their no heat calls and many times having 15 more customers waiting that have no heat we do not have time to do all that you would asked to be done. We do the best we can to make it safe and move on to the next job. It is great to have the time to do all of this and it definitely needs done but is not always feasible. A simple rule if it is unsafe do not leave it on and go back when you can to fix it. In 42 years of service I have never left a customer without heat.

Just as one example I have one young man who has been trying to expand his knowledge. I have been working with him for two years. He has done time in prison and has a learning disability. He is however an excellent mechanic. He hangs out here on the Wall as an observer. He will not ask questions here but will call me or e-mail me. He and many others 136 e-mails to be exact find what you bring to this forum confusing and have a problem that you do not give direct step by step solutions after your statements of the inadequacy of all equipment. Several young trainees are worried that the equipment they are putting in may hurt someone or worst of all as one of them put it "am I going to kill anyone putting in Weil-McLain boilers?"

If you do not give the whole story then do not say anything. Take an example gives us the Make, Model and Serial number name the gas valve, pilot and all the other controls and then tell us exactly how you adjusted it to get it to maximum efficiency and CO safety. I have asked questions that needed answers because the statements you made do not ring correct based on what I know about certain gas equipment. It has also been my experince with most trades people that we all talk the same language and can communicate the truth so we both understand it. We can not form our own language we must speak the language of the trade.

Another example when you were discussing testing with George Lanthier (Firedragon) I sensed you were talking about testing gas and he was referring to oil.

The other thing we have to be aware of is that Homeowners are on this sight and we do not want to create a panic. The "duct tape thing does not work".

In all the years I worked for a gas company and over 100 service men on the road seven days a week adjusting equipment for the last 50 years using fluid to test equipment our safety record was one of the tops in the country. In those days we tested for CO with hand aspirated Monoxors or MSA testers. Not everyone can afford expensive electronic equipment, they do the best they can with what they have. Some are barely making a living and they need to have the fundamentals first. Do not mis understand me I believe testing should be done on every job it just may not always be feasible.

I am very careful who I let into my classes. I check for their liscenses and want to know what they have for a work background. One of your students wanted to come to my class on Conversion Burners and Combustion Testing. I told him before he could not attend that class. He first had to come to six other classes of eight hours each. He is a liscensed contractor with 21 years experience. Those are my requirements. Sometimes I lose money because of my concern about the students qualifications.I also do not certify them as experts, I do not believe you can do that in two and 1/2 days of class. I have a real problem with a lot of certification programs across the country. It is my opinion they are ways to get business and impress customers.

You go ahead I will lurk and learn. I have to sit down and figure out if I am stupid or ignorant. My wife could answer that very easily I am sure.

Mark A. Custis

Stop in

and say hello. Sure will. I don't miss the drive from SLO to the Queen. #1 daughter is there.

Mark

ps. I lied to Murph, I still have my pink text book from your class, but it is not autographed



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paul lessard_3

wrong timmie..

Ive always wanted to say that to you,just to see you "in action".You are a real source for real info when I grab one of your HUGE 3 ring binders looking for answers they are always there for me .As for myself when the time is right (diesel trucks start, have time to sneak away,not working day and night)I have definite plans to take the 40 min drive to as many of your classes as poss. I hope you are not thinking of joining mr frank blau.
thanks Timmie
paul lessard

paul lessard_3

wrong timmie..

Ive always wanted to say that to you,just to see you "in action".You are a real source for real info. when I grab one of your HUGE 3 ring binders looking for answers they are always there for me .As for myself when the time is right (diesel trucks start, have time to sneak away,not working day and night)I have definite plans to take the 40 min drive to as many of your classes as poss. I hope you are not thinking of joining mr frank blau.
thanks Timmie
paul lessard

paul lessard_3

wrong timmie..

Ive always wanted to say that to you,just to see you "in action".You are a real source for real info. when I grab one of your HUGE 3 ring binders looking for answers they are always there for me .As for myself when the time is right (diesel trucks start, have time to sneak away,not working day and night)I have definite plans to take the 40 min drive to as many of your classes as poss. I hope you are not thinking of joining mr frank blau.
thanks Timmie... paul lessard

Bob Bona_4

add

me to that list of confused persons, Timmy. I have asked Mr. Davis to substantiate his theories, and what I get is gobbleygook.

IMO, NCI is coming off as a huckster to sell seminars by the vague and evasive posts by it's rep.

You are far from stupid or ignorant, we have met in person at Wetstock, methinks trying to read between the lines of Mr. Davis's post just has has us wondering "Whaaa?"

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Bud

Your own Pier

Timmie..if you need a place to share your wit, we can set up a Pier for only registered users for you. This way you know who your discussing this too, and not just the Mr fix it guy. We're in the beginning stages of building seperate classroom sorta senerios..got some tweaking to do. At this time there is no charge for this and I would welcome the oppertunity to build one to see how it works...All the users would have to do is to register at ThePiers.Net...once this is done we can give them permission to view things on the site. Everyone else would never see or know whats going on! Were not your typical site for the HO or Mr.fix it guy. One important thing is that we don't charge for this...and as long as your sharing your wit, your very welcome to sale your material but not the discussion That would take care of all of this worry, correct!

Just trying to help out!

Bud