A new record was set (ME)

[Deleted User]

I got a call the other day form a big "developer/home builder", who had a 10K home with hydronic heating in it. He explained that he had two big Buderus boilers with Orange burners on them, and that one of them kept locking out. After having had 6 different service people attempt repairs, he'd reached the end of his frustration rope and called the factory who referred him to the local rep, who referred him to us.

I made the appointment and went to his house to start the analysis process. The boiler that kept tripping out was doing so on flame failure on ignition. It did eventually light and stay lit long enough for me to do a combustion analysis. 20 ppm CO, and other paramters close to where it should have been. Minor adjustments got it up to factory specs. Went to check the other boiler that was staying lit, and to my suprise, my combustion analyzer "locked up " and shut down on HIGH CO alarm. 14,000 ppm...

This one took a little more than minor adjustment to clean it up. The HO came down while I had things in disarray, and was looking at my menagerie of instrumentation and tools, and sez, "Gee, none of the other boiler guys had any of those toys..."

Needless to say, I think I've captured all of this gentlemans future hydronic heating business.

The point is guys, if you don't test, you won't know.

Take the time and money necessary to do the job right. You can't "eye ball" burner performance. You MUST test it in order to do a correct job.

The only saving factors on this system was the fact that he had Tjernlund power venters pulling the flue products out of the house. I don't think he realizes how serious it was, or could have been.

Waking up dead is not a good way to start the day.

ME

MURPH'

WAKING UP DEAD !!!

Wind curtain, Installed replacement 40 gal gas water heater. simple job eh? cut and run fired up the unit and then began to clean-up and start another small outdoor task that was soon finished. after returning to basement I heard the flame at full burn was in trouble, so the first thing i did was to get tester out and stick it in the flue chase before the draft hood (not quite a record),started to get reaDINGS OF 1100-1200 PPM. Hmmmmmm ,wonder why?? so as to investigate i figured the flame was getting rained on with condensation, went to take off cover plates and WOWEE !!! way to hot to touch Hmmmmmmm , got out my trusty pliers (thats what I call them) pulled off the plate instant decrease in co readings.


Out of the woods ,not yet, now i begin to ponder the possibility of needing to operate this unit without the covers as to get more combustion air to the flame !! BUT WAIT.......the co starts to level off at 600-650 ppm. NOW WHAT, I HEAR AS MY HEAD IS SMACKING OFF THE WALL!!! Hmmmm, perhaps something else is amiss..... so as the fact that i still have somewhat of a memory left (Ffp coined the phrase "memory eraser") with the probe still installed i decide to check the draft.


Hmmmm works well with match, baffles still in place, flue pipe nice and hot, but seems the flue temp is a little low (needed to relocate probe to find this out)so i decide to do a simulation test and proceed to wrap a bath towel around the draft hood. Within seconds my co readinds went down to 30 ppm with absolutly no fluctuations at all. Botton of water heater starts to get cool to the touch and flue pipe and temps begin to rise, case solved.


Now i will have to redo flue piping and add a barometric, this cost and time will come out of my pocket, not a problem cause I feel like I averted a serious situation on this job. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE WORKING ON THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS WORTH OR A HIGH BTU OUTPUT APPLIANCE TO CREATE A DEADLY SITUATION. I sincerely hope this post helps, the situation did for me. Keep testing ,or you'll never know!!



Murph' (SOS)

kevin

imagine....

a 10,000 sq. ft. house and they used side shot power venters? I guess it wasn't in the budget. What did they have for the distribution system? Did they have CO detectors? kpc

[Deleted User]

The house...

is beautiful, but eclectic. I think the architect forgot to include flue chases in his design. The HO did have a CO detector outside of the room, however, it was a threshold type and not a constant readout type. He's going to buy a better one. Interestingly enough, I had a background residual of 4 ppm CO in the vicinity of the boiler room. Thought maybe my meter was suffering a CO hangover. Took it outside in the fresh air and it zero'd out. Took it back into the mechanical room and it jumped back up to 3 ppm immediately. Showed this to the HO and he raised his eyebrows.

Been waking up kinda groggy in the mornings??? Feeling a little bit hung over even though you only had one glass of chianti with dinner??

Unfortunatley, the home was done with BBR at the recommendation of the currently bankrupt/out of business plumbing/heating contractor. 25 foot ceilings in places, and tough to keep comfortable. I'll bet you his next home is done with radiant floors:-)

ME

Glenn Harrison

Mark,

What kind of meter do you have that can read 14,000 ppm of CO? I believe my Testo only goes to 8,000. Just curious.

Glenn Harrison, Residential Service Tech

Althoff Industries Inc. Mechanical and Electrical Contractors

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Althoff Industries website

[Deleted User]

Testo

I don't know the model number, but it's a Testo for shore. I had to force it to continue running. It wanted to leave the room with me attached to it, IMMEDIATELY.

ME

[Deleted User]

Testo

I don't know the model number, but it's a Testo for shore. I had to force it to continue running. It wanted to leave the room with me attached to it, IMMEDIATELY.

I've been warned that reading high CO like that will like severely shorten the life expectancy of the sensing elements, but what's a fella to do??? I had to test it in order to establish a base line.

ME

Glenn Harrison

Yea, I've read that too.

You probably should call Testo and ask for an opinion on how long that sensor will last with that kind of exposure. I'll bet you will be looking at needing a new sensor for next winter.

As far as leaving the room, My schpincter is doing the mombo just thinking about 14,000 ppm.

I was just thinking, you were probably reading 14,000 ppm CO air free weren't you? If so, this is probably the same as 8,000 ppm CO. I just saw this the other day on a Lennox Pulse gas furnasty. Also had a .3% O2 reading, almost complete combustion.

Glenn Harrison

[Deleted User]

Yes to air free CO (NM)

ME

MURPH'

yup......

test them all

Steamhead

Nice going, Mark

just curious- did those power venters discharge anywhere near a window?

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[Deleted User]

Yes...

but within the venters recommendations (barely).

ME

Steamhead

I knew

you had checked, just wondering what you found. Still scary at those high levels. Did they just forget to tune the burner when they installed it- which is sooooo typical- or did something actually break down?



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[Deleted User]

I don't think...

the installers knew what they were doing from the gitgo. Obviously, none of the follow up contractors did either. Working with power burners is different than working with atmospherics. Power burners are a rareity around these parts and very few people have the testing equipment necessary to properly set them up.

ME