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water leaving via returns in steam system
Jim B_2
Member Posts: 20
Folks;
Thanks for all your comments I took some time this weekend to take a few pictures and make some measurements:
Measuring the radiators , I came up with 336 square feet ..which I calculate to be 80640 BTU. Please feel free to correct the calculation.
The new boiler is a Weil-McLain EG-45. Input is 150,000 BTU/Hr with a 122,000 BTU/Hr DOE heating capacity. (which has a NET IBR rating of 383 sq ft steam or 92000 BTU/Hr ).
The pictures are from the latest revision of the boiler piping. The initial install used a single pipe off the header into a T to feed the front and back of the house. (I now know this is a BIG no no!) [The old installation had separate lines to the front and back. ] The header was also undersized...using a 2 instead of the recommended 2 ½ .
When this did not work, the contractor (PSE&G NJ ) called in their boiler expert who decided that a good cleaning (about one hour ) was all that was needed.
When this did not work, they returned to install the piping that you see in the attached files with the T removed and separate feeds to the system installed . It is interesting to note that the manufacturer typically recommends using both risers for the next larger model and above.
Your thoughts are welcome.
One added note: over the weekend I flushed the mains as best I could with a garden hose. This seemed to help. But having done this once before, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before the problem comes back. Maybe a professional cleaning of the system would help. This is a 85 years young system.
Thanks
Jim
PS I have managed to lose my thread on the wall. How to get back?
Thanks for all your comments I took some time this weekend to take a few pictures and make some measurements:
Measuring the radiators , I came up with 336 square feet ..which I calculate to be 80640 BTU. Please feel free to correct the calculation.
The new boiler is a Weil-McLain EG-45. Input is 150,000 BTU/Hr with a 122,000 BTU/Hr DOE heating capacity. (which has a NET IBR rating of 383 sq ft steam or 92000 BTU/Hr ).
The pictures are from the latest revision of the boiler piping. The initial install used a single pipe off the header into a T to feed the front and back of the house. (I now know this is a BIG no no!) [The old installation had separate lines to the front and back. ] The header was also undersized...using a 2 instead of the recommended 2 ½ .
When this did not work, the contractor (PSE&G NJ ) called in their boiler expert who decided that a good cleaning (about one hour ) was all that was needed.
When this did not work, they returned to install the piping that you see in the attached files with the T removed and separate feeds to the system installed . It is interesting to note that the manufacturer typically recommends using both risers for the next larger model and above.
Your thoughts are welcome.
One added note: over the weekend I flushed the mains as best I could with a garden hose. This seemed to help. But having done this once before, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before the problem comes back. Maybe a professional cleaning of the system would help. This is a 85 years young system.
Thanks
Jim
PS I have managed to lose my thread on the wall. How to get back?
0
Comments
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water leaving steam return lines
This is one I cannot find in "Pocketful of Steam Problems". My brand new steam boiler has undergone several re-piping exercises and cleanings and this problem still exists: when the boiler first comes on and after about ten minutes, the water level goes into a nose dive until it hits low water cutoff and recovers its water level. This happens for a few times before the system "settles in" and runs to satisfy the thermostat. I have noted that the water appears to be forced out of the wet returns as they get very hot before the mains. The pipes are all insulated, the pitch appears good, and the radiator air vents are relatively new(non-vacuum type). I had completely flushed the system and this seemed to solve the problem but no wit is back. I have given up on my contractor ..he says its not the boiler. (and he didn't change anything else. Anybody know what might be going on?0 -
water leaving steam return lines
This is one I cannot find in "Pocketful of Steam Problems". My brand new steam boiler has undergone several re-piping exercises and cleanings and this problem still exists: when the boiler first comes on and after about ten minutes, the water level goes into a nose dive until it hits low water cutoff and recovers its water level. This happens for a few times before the system "settles in" and runs to satisfy the thermostat. I have noted that the water appears to be forced out of the wet returns as they get very hot before the mains. The pipes are all insulated, the pitch appears good, and the radiator air vents are relatively new(non-vacuum type). I had completely flushed the system and this seemed to solve the problem but no wit is back. I have given up on my contractor ..he says its not the boiler. (and he didn't change anything else. Anybody know what might be going on?0 -
water leaving steam return lines
This is one I cannot find in "Pocketful of Steam Problems". My brand new steam boiler has undergone several re-piping exercises and cleanings and this problem still exists: when the boiler first comes on and after about ten minutes, the water level goes into a nose dive until it hits low water cutoff and recovers its water level. This happens for a few times before the system "settles in" and runs to satisfy the thermostat. I have noted that the water appears to be forced out of the wet returns as they get very hot before the mains. The pipes are all insulated, the pitch appears good, and the radiator air vents are relatively new(non-vacuum type). I had completely flushed the system and this seemed to solve the problem but no wit is back. I have given up on my contractor ..he says its not the boiler. (and he didn't change anything else. Anybody know what might be going on?0 -
water leaving steam return lines
This is one I cannot find in "Pocketful of Steam Problems". My brand new steam boiler has undergone several re-piping exercises and cleanings and this problem still exists: when the boiler first comes on and after about ten minutes, the water level goes into a nose dive until it hits low water cutoff and recovers its water level. This happens for a few times before the system "settles in" and runs to satisfy the thermostat. I have noted that the water appears to be forced out of the wet returns as they get very hot before the mains. The pipes are all insulated, the pitch appears good, and the radiator air vents are relatively new(non-vacuum type). I had completely flushed the system and this seemed to solve the problem but no wit is back. I have given up on my contractor ..he says its not the boiler. (and he didn't change anything else. Anybody know what might be going on?0 -
water leaving steam return lines
This is one I cannot find in "Pocketful of Steam Problems". My brand new steam boiler has undergone several re-piping exercises and cleanings and this problem still exists: when the boiler first comes on and after about ten minutes, the water level goes into a nose dive until it hits low water cutoff and recovers its water level. This happens for a few times before the system "settles in" and runs to satisfy the thermostat. I have noted that the water appears to be forced out of the wet returns as they get very hot before the mains. The pipes are all insulated, the pitch appears good, and the radiator air vents are relatively new(non-vacuum type). I had completely flushed the system and this seemed to solve the problem but no wit is back. I have given up on my contractor ..he says its not the boiler. (and he didn't change anything else. Anybody know what might be going on?0 -
When boilers are fired at more than the radiation needs
the water leaves out the returns. How many Square Feet EDR of radiation do you have, and what size boiler/burner do you have?
Noel
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do you have
a picture you could post ? what does your near boiler piping look like?0 -
water leaving
Looks like I have to gather some additional information. I do know that I did not upsize the boiler compared to the old one..but I do have a few rooms turned off. Still can't understand why it comes and goes....0 -
Folks;
Thanks for all your comments I took some time this weekend to take a few pictures and make some measurements:
Measuring the radiators , I came up with 336 square feet ..which I calculate to be 80640 BTU. Please feel free to correct the calculation.
The new boiler is a Weil-McLain EG-45. Input is 150,000 BTU/Hr with a 122,000 BTU/Hr DOE heating capacity. (which has a NET IBR rating of 383 sq ft steam or 92000 BTU/Hr ).
The pictures are from the latest revision of the boiler piping. The initial install used a single pipe off the header into a T to feed the front and back of the house. (I now know this is a BIG no no!) [The old installation had separate lines to the front and back. ] The header was also undersized...using a 2 instead of the recommended 2 ½ .
When this did not work, the contractor (PSE&G NJ ) called in their boiler expert who decided that a good cleaning (about one hour ) was all that was needed.
When this did not work, they returned to install the piping that you see in the attached files with the T removed and separate feeds to the system installed . It is interesting to note that the manufacturer typically recommends using both risers for the next larger model and above.
Your thoughts are welcome.
One added note: over the weekend I flushed the mains as best I could with a garden hose. This seemed to help. But having done this once before, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before the problem comes back. Maybe a professional cleaning of the system would help. This is a 85 years young system.
Thanks
Jim
PS I have managed to lose my thread on the wall. How to get back?
0 -
Folks;
Thanks for all your comments I took some time this weekend to take a few pictures and make some measurements:
Measuring the radiators , I came up with 336 square feet ..which I calculate to be 80640 BTU. Please feel free to correct the calculation.
The new boiler is a Weil-McLain EG-45. Input is 150,000 BTU/Hr with a 122,000 BTU/Hr DOE heating capacity. (which has a NET IBR rating of 383 sq ft steam or 92000 BTU/Hr ).
The pictures are from the latest revision of the boiler piping. The initial install used a single pipe off the header into a T to feed the front and back of the house. (I now know this is a BIG no no!) [The old installation had separate lines to the front and back. ] The header was also undersized...using a 2 instead of the recommended 2 ½ .
When this did not work, the contractor (PSE&G NJ ) called in their boiler expert who decided that a good cleaning (about one hour ) was all that was needed.
When this did not work, they returned to install the piping that you see in the attached files with the T removed and separate feeds to the system installed . It is interesting to note that the manufacturer typically recommends using both risers for the next larger model and above.
Your thoughts are welcome.
One added note: over the weekend I flushed the mains as best I could with a garden hose. This seemed to help. But having done this once before, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before the problem comes back. Maybe a professional cleaning of the system would help. This is a 85 years young system.
Thanks
Jim
PS I have managed to lose my thread on the wall. How to get back?
0 -
Folks;
Thanks for all your comments I took some time this weekend to take a few pictures and make some measurements:
Measuring the radiators , I came up with 336 square feet ..which I calculate to be 80640 BTU. Please feel free to correct the calculation.
The new boiler is a Weil-McLain EG-45. Input is 150,000 BTU/Hr with a 122,000 BTU/Hr DOE heating capacity. (which has a NET IBR rating of 383 sq ft steam or 92000 BTU/Hr ).
The pictures are from the latest revision of the boiler piping. The initial install used a single pipe off the header into a T to feed the front and back of the house. (I now know this is a BIG no no!) [The old installation had separate lines to the front and back. ] The header was also undersized...using a 2 instead of the recommended 2 ½ .
When this did not work, the contractor (PSE&G NJ ) called in their boiler expert who decided that a good cleaning (about one hour ) was all that was needed.
When this did not work, they returned to install the piping that you see in the attached files with the T removed and separate feeds to the system installed . It is interesting to note that the manufacturer typically recommends using both risers for the next larger model and above.
Your thoughts are welcome.
One added note: over the weekend I flushed the mains as best I could with a garden hose. This seemed to help. But having done this once before, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before the problem comes back. Maybe a professional cleaning of the system would help. This is a 85 years young system.
Thanks
Jim
PS I have managed to lose my thread on the wall. How to get back?
0 -
Folks;
Thanks for all your comments I took some time this weekend to take a few pictures and make some measurements:
Measuring the radiators , I came up with 336 square feet ..which I calculate to be 80640 BTU. Please feel free to correct the calculation.
The new boiler is a Weil-McLain EG-45. Input is 150,000 BTU/Hr with a 122,000 BTU/Hr DOE heating capacity. (which has a NET IBR rating of 383 sq ft steam or 92000 BTU/Hr ).
The pictures are from the latest revision of the boiler piping. The initial install used a single pipe off the header into a T to feed the front and back of the house. (I now know this is a BIG no no!) [The old installation had separate lines to the front and back. ] The header was also undersized...using a 2 instead of the recommended 2 ½ .
When this did not work, the contractor (PSE&G NJ ) called in their boiler expert who decided that a good cleaning (about one hour ) was all that was needed.
When this did not work, they returned to install the piping that you see in the attached files with the T removed and separate feeds to the system installed . It is interesting to note that the manufacturer typically recommends using both risers for the next larger model and above.
Your thoughts are welcome.
One added note: over the weekend I flushed the mains as best I could with a garden hose. This seemed to help. But having done this once before, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before the problem comes back. Maybe a professional cleaning of the system would help. This is a 85 years young system.
Thanks
Jim
PS I have managed to lose my thread on the wall. How to get back?
0 -
water leaving via returns
Folks;
Thanks for all your comments I took some time this weekend to take a few pictures and make some measurements:
Measuring the radiators , I came up with 336 square feet ..which I calculate to be 80640 BTU. Please feel free to correct the calculation.
The new boiler is a Weil-McLain EG-45. Input is 150,000 BTU/Hr with a 122,000 BTU/Hr DOE heating capacity. (which has a NET IBR rating of 383 sq ft steam or 92000 BTU/Hr ).
The pictures are from the latest revision of the boiler piping. The initial install used a single pipe off the header into a T to feed the front and back of the house. (I now know this is a BIG no no!) [The old installation had separate lines to the front and back. ] The header was also undersized...using a 2 instead of the recommended 2 ½ .
When this did not work, the contractor (PSE&G NJ ) called in their boiler expert who decided that a good cleaning (about one hour ) was all that was needed.
When this did not work, they returned to install the piping that you see in the attached files with the T removed and separate feeds to the system installed . It is interesting to note that the manufacturer typically recommends using both risers for the next larger model and above.
Your thoughts are welcome.
One added note: over the weekend I flushed the mains as best I could with a garden hose. This seemed to help. But having done this once before, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before the problem comes back. Maybe a professional cleaning of the system would help. This is a 85 years young system.
Thanks
Jim
0 -
water leaving via returns
Folks;
Thanks for all your comments I took some time this weekend to take a few pictures and make some measurements:
Measuring the radiators , I came up with 336 square feet ..which I calculate to be 80640 BTU. Please feel free to correct the calculation.
The new boiler is a Weil-McLain EG-45. Input is 150,000 BTU/Hr with a 122,000 BTU/Hr DOE heating capacity. (which has a NET IBR rating of 383 sq ft steam or 92000 BTU/Hr ).
The pictures are from the latest revision of the boiler piping. The initial install used a single pipe off the header into a T to feed the front and back of the house. (I now know this is a BIG no no!) [The old installation had separate lines to the front and back. ] The header was also undersized...using a 2 instead of the recommended 2 ½ .
When this did not work, the contractor (PSE&G NJ ) called in their boiler expert who decided that a good cleaning (about one hour ) was all that was needed.
When this did not work, they returned to install the piping that you see in the attached files with the T removed and separate feeds to the system installed . It is interesting to note that the manufacturer typically recommends using both risers for the next larger model and above.
Your thoughts are welcome.
One added note: over the weekend I flushed the mains as best I could with a garden hose. This seemed to help. But having done this once before, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before the problem comes back. Maybe a professional cleaning of the system would help. This is a 85 years young system.
Thanks
Jim
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postings
Jim dont email us directly. Post your replys right here on the wall so eveyone can help.You have got big problems. You heating contractor was right! The problem isn't your boiler, IT'S THE WAY THEY INSTALLED IT. If you haven't paid this guy yet, DON"T!!!!!0 -
jim
these guy's are "HACKS'. they don't know"JACK" aboutsteam heat. they might not even know how to read.they can't even follow the manufacturers instructions.
1)the header is the wrong size.
2)it is piped wrong
3)the equalizer is wrong
4)The hartford loop is wrong
Are their any vents installed at the ends of your returns? It looks like the two nipples tha come off the returns are capped off. Why are your returns insulated? They are not supossed to be. Should steam get into those condensate returns it can't condense easily. I don't know if i would have these guys back into my house. You might want to use the find a contractor portion of this web sight. good luck and keep us posted.0 -
with the pics for all to see.
0 -
with the pics0 -
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Subject:
water leaving via returns
Date:
Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:44:56 -0500
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Folks;
Thanks for all your comments I took some time this weekend to take a few
pictures and make some measurements:
Measuring the radiators , I came up with 336 square feet ..which I calculate
to be 80640 BTU. Please feel free to correct the calculation.
The new boiler is a Weil-McLain EG-45. Input is 150,000 BTU/Hr with a
122,000 BTU/Hr DOE heating capacity. (which has a NET IBR rating of 383 sq
ft steam or 92000 BTU/Hr ).
The pictures are from the latest revision of the boiler piping. The initial
install used a single pipe off the header into a T to feed the front and
back of the house. (I now know this is a BIG no no!) [The old
installation had separate lines to the front and back. ] The header was
also undersized...using a 2" instead of the recommended 2 ½ " .
When this did not work, the contractor (PSE&G - NJ ) called in their boiler
expert who decided that a good cleaning (about one hour ) was all that was
needed.
When this did not work, they returned to install the piping that you see in
the attached files with the T removed and separate feeds to the system
installed . It is interesting to note that the manufacturer typically
recommends using both risers for the next larger model and above.
0 -
OH MY!
You REALLY need to find another contractor sir.
I can't say that that is the WORST piping job I have ever seen, but it is in the top two.
Click on the "Find a Contractor" tab and get someone in there to fix this.
As a heating professional, I am sorry that this happened to you.
Mark H
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Your water isn't leaving out the returns,
It is leaving out the supplies...
The water that flows up the risers, then after BOTH risers connect into the straight header, then after the system take-offs, it goes straight on and down the equalizer.
Yours doesn't look like that. Check this picture...
Noel0
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