Aren't flue pipes.......

Unknown

there was a flue pipe there , and they left it off , or the furnace never had it hooked in at all ?

I remember one job , an oil boiler install in Queens NY . The boiler had no coil or separate heater to be seen , so we assumed there was an electric somewhere . During the day I wasnt feeling right , getting a headache . My partner felt the same way . Later on I asked the homeowner what they used for hot water , so he showed me where the proud gas heater sat , the one he installed himself - 50 gallons , and venting right into the room ( no chimney in there ) . I told him this was a serious problem - deadly in fact . He didnt want to hear it , explaining to me that he had 3 gas stoves in the house , and they werent vented either , so why do the heater ?

Hey that brings me to a question - when is it deemed unsafe to have an appliance vent into a room - does it go by BTUs ? Im talking about stoves . But is there a heater made so small as to not need venting ? Not that I would ever try , just asking .

Mark Hunt

Aren't flue pipes.......


supposed to be attached to the appliance they are serving?

I just got back from a home where I was supposed to look over some small plumbing repairs. The nice lady of the house told me she already had a heating contractor and that I did not need to concern myself with the heating eqipment.

I explained that I check EVERY system in EVERY house I go to and that it would not cost her a dime.

Before I got within three steps of the oil fired warm air furnace I could see something was different.

I asked the nice lady of the house if her "heating contractor" was the last person to touch the furnace and she said yes. "Well why do you suppose he left the flue pipe off?" I asked.

I kid you not folks. The flue pipe has been like that since September.

I fixed it.

Mark H

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Alan R. Mercurio

A room with a "vent free" heater must have so many square feet available with relationship to the BTU'S of the heater.

They should also have what's known as a (ODV) Oxygen Depletion Valve. That will not allow it to run with insufficient Oxygen.

Not bad for an oil dude eh?
Your friend in the industry,

Alan R. Mercurio

Oil Tech Talk

Unknown

Alan

What are the symptoms of an ODV that has failed?

Noel

Bill Wright_2

Headache, bluish fingernails, lethargy, coma, death ...

Sorry -- I couldn't resist ... even though I'll probably be "spanked" for making light of a serious situation.

Dale

ODS or ODP

The oxygen depletion sensor or oxygen depletion pilot is really an interesting device. Most are just pilots with very percise orifices, sometimes the orifice is glass, with a fairly long pilot flame to reach to the thermocouple tip. If the amount of oxygen gets low the flame lifts off the pilot and past the thermoucouple tip to cool it and let the magnet stop gas flow. Symptom of tripping would be pilot outage. Some varieties have a bimetal over the pilot primary air opening which cools and warps in a reduced O2 atmosphere which makes the pilot flame reduce heat to the thermocouple to close the valve. All no vent is tested to one ANSI standard.

Mark Hunt

The flue pipe

was there Ron, sitting on top of the furnace next to where it was supposed to be attached. No CO detectors in the house but I am going to order a CO experts alarm for them.

Of all the days for me to forget my digital camera!

There are two furnaces in this house, the second one is a low boy and the "A" coil is mounted in the return plenim. It has been dripping on the fan motor and squirrel cage forever. It also has no air filters in it and the homeowner was told that "this furnace doesn't use filters".

Now ain't that convenient!!

The current allowable discharge for a gas stove is 800ppm CO!! That has not been changed since they started making the standards. Ever wonder why you get sleepy at large family gatherings like Thanksgiving? It isn't just mamma's good cookin'!!

I know that Rinnai and a few other like manufacturers have small "vent free" heaters. They are supposed to be equipped with Oxygen depletion sensors that will shut the gas off before you die. I would not put one in my worst enemy's house!

FfP used to call them "memory erasers", I like that!

My advice to all of my customers is "if it burns, vent it outside".

Mark H

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Mark Hunt

I was gonna say


dead canaries, but your description is more acurate.

Mark H

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Unknown

Oxygen Depletion Safety Device

here we go again. When these unvented heaters first came out the gas company marketing department sold them with out the operations department testing them. We finally brought five of them in for test. Get ready for this, we could make high levels of CO in the test room (we sealed it off and observed from a window in the door)the ODS system on the pilot never shut down becasue we introduced plenty of fresh air in at the lower level of the heater. We closed the air shutters and placed a large dryer box three feet above the heater. The levels of CO ran from 800 ppm to 1000 ppm and the pilot kept going for over an hour. It finally went out when the burner flame was floating around so much it could not stay on any more. These systems also use what is called a quick drop out thermocouple. It drops out faster than your normal thrmocouple (180 seconds) quick drop is 30 to 45 seconds. You have to be very careful when cleaning the pilot as you can damage the orifice. Most of these are under 40,000 btu's. Hey gas ranges 4 top burners 10,000 each, oven 25,000 btu's total on Thanksgiving Day 65,000 btu's. Honey I have a headache. Add a double oven 20,000 more 85,000 btu's that is more than the heat loss on lots of homes.

We also kicked one over to see if it would go out, it just kept running and set the carpet on fire we had placed at the recommended distance from combustible materials.

They are required to be operated with the window open. Duh why would I open the window when I want heat.

They are also only to be used a supplemental heat.

Some can be wall mounted, others have a stabilizer leg to be screwed to the floor.

Them and decorative fireplaces and inserts make high levels of CO and add tremendous amounts of moisture into the room (water vapor) one of the products of combustion.

Largest selling gas appliances in the world, decorative gas equipment.

B. Tice

Vent Free

I still read Alternative Energy Retailer and Hearth and Home magazines, I was heavy into woodheat years ago. There is a major backlash against these contraptions coming, according to what I'm reading. The smart manufact's are backing away from these as we speak. As soon as a Dateline type expose comes out, they will fall.

Brian (Tankless) Wood

This is possibly THE scariest

thread I've ever read.

I hope many 1,000's of homeowners are reading this.

Brian.