Steam question

JM_2

here is a better picture of my unit. I am just concerned that when i have someone replace the old work they wont do it correctly, That is why i am trying to learn so much about it. What is the pupose of the drop header is it to help dry the steam?

JM

JM_2

I own a house with a gas fired one pipe steam system (i am not a professional heat man, but an involved homeowner) I have owned this house for two years, the boiler is 4 years old. After reading " the lost art of steam heating i have some questions about my system.
--firstly, i lowerd the cut in from 2.5 psi to .5 psi and lowed the differention from 3 to 1. The house heats fine infact perhaps a little more even. But my gauge still reads around 14 psi "internal syphon". Is this normal?
--Secondly I think i have a Hartford loop from from a dry return, but it seems to be conected to the equalizer through a close nipple about 8 inches above the glass instead of two inches below. Is this normal? I am attaching a picture.

Thank you

David Efflandt

gauge port could be blocked

Not sure how that gauge connects to boiler, but judging from location and dirty sight glass, it could be blocked.

My gauge is on top of boiler, on hex shaped nipple with built in snubber at bottom which was blocked. So indicated pressure was just expansion of heated trapped air in the nipple instead of boiler pressure. But since I am not a pro and not familiar with your boiler, I cannot tell you how to correct that.

Make sure that pigtail to pressuretrol is not plugged with gunk.

Do you ever flush the gunk out of bottom of loop and boiler? Just make sure it is cooled down a bit and shut off at thermostat or switch so cold feedwater does not crack anything hot.

I didn't know what to expect buying a house with steam heat (1-pipe), but now that I understand it, it certainly beats scorched air.

Steamhead

Is that a Burnham boiler?

I often see gauges like that on Burnhams. These have an internal water seal ("syphon") to keep steam from reaching the gauge mechanism. When one goes bad, I usually replace it with a standard gauge and a standard pigtail-type syphon which can be cleaned if it plugs up.

This should be done by a pro. Go to the "Find a Contractor" page of this site to locate one near you.

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

[Deleted User]

Ah, yes.

Copper piping on a steam boiler. Guess that is why they are developing high temperature duct tape.

You might want to dig around in the ceiling to see if the installation manual is still there. If so, find your highliter, and spend an evening w/ the manual, in front of the boiler. You will not be pleasantly surprised.

Then I would suggest you start contacting contractors in your area. If they arrive w/o Dan's "The Lost Art of Steam Heating", chase them away. You need a Dead Man, or someone who can read, and follow instructions, to pipe the boiler properly.

Fixing what is wrong now, will result in fewer migraines later. Good luck.

Unknown

Holy Hartford Loop

Looks like the loop is way too high - is there any banging at the boiler when the condensate tries to get back ?

I see the gauge mounted like yours all the time , and they usually die a premature death . We install the gauge after a pigtail , just like the pressuretrol , to protect it from the crud inside the boiler .

JM_2

The sytem is quiet

for the most part. It seems to heat well but i am concerned about the coper. Also i think the main vent is undersized or not working. Also no provision for flushing the mains. The gauge is def. busted it reads five punds with the system cold and empty .

jm

Unknown

We use copper for the returns

and havent had any problems with it . But it looks like you have a copper header , which isnt the best material to use there - the solder joints might not hold very well under the expansion . This is where we install the gauge so it wont be destoyed within months .

Unknown

Congradulations

Ron jr.

That is the example that shou;d be sent to all the HOs that allow copper to be installed on the boiler.

Beautiful drop header. Instead of street els try buying maliblw return bends, less threads to worry about.


Jake

steve_6

return bends

what do these look like? do you have a picture?

steve_6

here is an explanation on drop headers I got from a

previous posting from Noel......
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Author: Noel (nmurdough@slantfin.com)
Date: January 31, 2003 02:09 PM
Subject: Steam quality

First let me repeat something an old factory rep told me, years ago. He said,"ALL steam boilers should be piped with a dropped header." It was off the cuff, and I'll qualify it. All Cast iron and steel residential steam boilers can benefit from them.

With old steam boilers and big horizontal ones, there is plenty of room for the steam to leave the water surface without building velocity. In residential style boilers, that room isn't there. The water leaves up the risers along with the steam bubbles that formed at the bottom of the boiler. If you picture a pot of water coming to a boil, and you turn down the heat to keep the water in the pan, then picture NOT turning down the heat. The water and steam madly rush up the pipe.

If the pipe is tall enough, a lot of the water will fall back down the riser. The rest of the water likes to settle out in the header, that is hopefully the widest pipe in the system. The water lays down in the bottom, still hauling along at 30 MPH, and the steam rides over the top of it. The steam rushes up the take-off to the system, and the water continues through the equalizer, and back to the boiler. This happens continually through the run cycle.

If you use a dropped header, for one reason or another, the water enters the header from above, or from a 45°..

Hope this helps. Get yourself a copy of Dans Lost art book this will help a lot. Looks like a lot of things were done wrong or short cuts taken to install this boiler, from the header to the take off to the equalizer to the hartford loop find yourself a good contractor an ask to see pictures of his work. Good luck

Steamhead

And speaking of Noel

here's a drop header that he built. This one was built to get around the problem of the steam mains being too low for the risers to the header to come up 24" above the waterline.

And they're easier to install than a standard header, though you do need a couple more fittings.

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

JM_2

Mains before equalizer

In all the photos of well done jobs i notice that when following the direction of steam flow, the mains are in front of the equalizer. But this is not the case in my set up.
JM

Unknown

Should be

The mains should take the steam from the top of the header, while the water continues straight through to the equalizer.

Were it not this way, the water and steam would go up the main together. The equalizer should be last.

Noel