Surging question

Kevin_6

Hi All,

Recnetly, my boiler is slowly gaining water.

I have had to drain off water almost weekly this season.

We have had a new burner installed at the end of last years season.

The system always had a slight bounce in the water level as seen in the sight glass, but is this considered surging"

From what I saw in the "Steam Problems" section, surging is a "violent" bouncing.

Will any bounce cause the autofeed to introduce more water into the system?

I have normally tried to keep the water level in the sightglass around half. Mainly because I have no idea where it should be and the house was built in the 20's and no instructional material survives!

Any info you can provide would be very helpful...Thanks in advance!

ta finnegan

Thoughts

I wonder that the returns are not obstructed in some way. The burner cuts out on low water, automatically feeds some in and then the condensate eventually makes it back.

Low water cut-out should not happen unless the water is bouncing around ALOT, especially if the working range is somewhere in the middle of the glass.

How is the near boiler piping, check that too.

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Kevin_6

Thanks for the response T.A.

Forgive me but I am not certain I understand when you say check the near boiler piping. I dont know what to check.

To me, Its been there for many,many years...without incident or change, so I dont get the correlation. Everything looks fine, ie in good shape.

If it helps, I forgot to mention, this is a one pipe steam system.

For surging, what is ALOT of bounce? 1"? Half the sight glass? 1/4"?

Mine bounces about 1/4 to 3/4" as a guesstimate.

Steamhead

That amount of motion

should not be a problem, Kevin. I've never seen a boiler where the water level didn't move up and down slightly when it was steaming. But if it gets much worse than that, the boiler should be cleaned.

"Near-boiler piping" refers to the way the piping around the boiler is configured. The proper configuration is critical, especially with newer boilers. The manufacturer provides detailed installation instructions which should be followed closely. Dan covers this and many, many other things in his book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating", which you can order from the Books and More page of this site. It's worth getting even if you won't be working on your system yourself.

How about taking a picture of your boiler and posting it here?

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Kevin_6

Increasing Water level

Morning Steamhead,

Thanks for the additional info.

Here is some additional info about the boiler. (I dont own a digital camera yet so pics wont be coming.

It is not a new system...its been there many years before I ever owned the home. The increasing water level is a very recent phenomenon.

It is an American Standard A-3 Oil boiler. It has on demand hot water, out side tank. The cold water fill enters the bottom of the unit. The auto feed device/site galss is on the left side of the unit (when facing the front of the boiler). A new burner unit was installed last year.
There is a steam valve on each side of the boiler piping at the very highest point of the rise. In writing this note, I dont recall hearing these valves spit out any steam lately.

Related problem? Another issue?

I'm thinking this thing needs a good cleaning to begin with but I dont know the procedure. I've begun to search the net but have not found anything specific to my boiler yet.

I do have the burner serviced annually.

When I do drain the water level, the water comes out initially clear, then darkens.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks in advance.

butch

surging boilers

on all low water content boilers-- use an 77 anti surge tank it works cuts down the velocity of the steam leaving the boiler at 60 mph !!! stabilizing the water level so the auto feed won't flood the boiler!!!

Steamhead

Water runs clear then darkens?

Then keep draining it- after shutting down the burner of course. And be SURE the boiler is cool before you refill. If you turn cold water into a hot boiler it will crack.

I'd repipe that fill line into the wet return before the Hartford Loop. That way there's much less chance of shocking the boiler. This is a job for a pro.

Those two "steam valves" you mention- are these shutoff ("King") valves? Safety Valves? Air vents?

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Kevin_6

Hartford loop

Thanks for the info everyone.

I dont think this system employs a Hartford Loop.

There is a single pipe exiting the furnace that immediatly turns into a "Y" connection. One side proceeds to the left side of the house radiators, the other goes to the right side house radiators.

Both then return to each side of the rear of the boiler. the both travel down to the bottom and converge into a single pipe that enters the boiler.

The very bottom of the right side return has the cold water fill running into it.

I've attempted to put this down on a bitmap drawing but it is not coming out very well. But I'll attempt to attach anyway.

Forgot to add some text... The smaller blue pipe is the cold fill.