Steam qusetions for the boys - s. milne

Steamhead

"A' dimension is the height from the waterline (I like to measure from the top of the sight glass) to the bottom of the lowest steam-carrying pipe in the system. This can be either the steam main or a dry return, if used.

Rise & drip raises the main so you don't run out of "A" dimension.

A wet return is usually, but not always, better than a dry return on a one-pipe job. The dry return is subject to the "A" dimension but the wet one is not.

Running two 1" runouts from the present main will not solve the pitch problem. You need to bring the main closer to where the riser to the rads is.

If that vent is below the waterline or in the "A" dimension's active range, water will flood it and it won't vent any air.

Can't wait to see the "after" pics!

<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=157&Step=30">To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"</A>

ScottMP

New customer had steam problems

The first call was water in the basement and on the basement floor.

When we got there we found the two steam rads in the front room were spitting water out of the vent. They are twinned together with 1 1/4" with a union and use one vent. The second rad is filled with water. There is a slight pitch but not alot.

Check out the way its piped and look at the return piping.

I think what is happening is the wet return is clogged and is backing up into the feed.

The feed to these two radiators has got no pitch to it.
And check out the way the vents are installed.

I think we need to replace the wet returns ( no copper Ron ), but can we make them dry returns ? Could we replace all the returns and then drop down into Hartford loop ?

By the way the radiators don't look like that, its just a bad picture.

Let me know guys.

Scott

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

ta finnegan

Suggestions

Try venting both radiators. Also check the opening between the radiators, could there be an obstruction?

What's that vent on the riser?

Are the main vents clogged?

Have the wet returns been replaces before? If so are they below the water line.

In order to determine if you could make them dry, you need to find out the pressure at which the system needs to work. Then make sure you can get your 28-30" dimension for the water to get back into the boiler.

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Unknown

Psychadelic rads

Im pretty sure twinning in those rads that way will give the homeowner nothing but headaches . Better to add another riser for the 2nd rad - not too bad if its anywhere near the end of the main .

I dont see a problem making it a dry return . I would extend the header past the last rad and add a main vent , then drop it down full size before reducing it to 1 1/4 . Where the dry return meets the boiler I would drop it to the floor first , then connect it to the Hartford Loop - so no steam can travel up the dry return . By the way - on a dry return , where is the point you measure from for the critical 28 inches up to the end of the main ? Where the header drops at the end of the main , or where it drops down to connect to the return piping ?

By the way , nice looking pipework on the ECT . Was that one of your jobs Scott ?

Unknown

Ron,

from the water line in the boiler (running) to the place at the end of the steam main where the steam meets the water, the way I understand it. The dead guys always seem to run the main all the way around the house (or split and run both ways) until the bottom of the main hit that 30" height, then dropped right down to the floor, or below. That is where the dry main had to become wet.

The vent doesn't need to be at the end, either. If it is just beyond the last radiator, even if you stay up high with the main, it shuts sooner. Less fuel, and it uses the rest of the air as a cushion. As it isn't hot, it doesn't lose heat. Quicker cycles. No negatives, whatsoever. Steamhead showed me that. I like it.

Come on, Scott. How'd you make the radiators look like that? That's cool. Or should I say, Hot 'n Banging?

Steamhead

That's an awfully long runout, Scott

and is no doubt part of the problem. It's probably at least 4 times as long as the runouts in the rest of the house. It's tough to get the proper pitch on a runout that long. Remember, steam and condensate flow in opposite directions in this runout.

I would solve this problem by extending the main to a point nearer the riser to the twinned rads. If the "A" dimension is a problem (that's the 30-inches Noel mentioned) there is a way out- a "rise and drip". This is where you screw a tee onto the end of the existing main with the bull pointing up. Screw a nipple in the bull (full size of the main) to raise the height of the main to where you want it, then put an elbow (or preferably a swing joint) onto the top of the nipple and continue the main from there.

Screw a short, full-size nipple in the run of the tee, then a reducing ell pointed down. Run a line from the reducing ell into the wet return. This "drip" will keep condensate from backing up.

At the end of the extended main, install a tee for a main vent, then a drip to the wet return in the normal manner. Size the main vent to vent all the air in the main in a minute's time. You'll find the vent works much better when it's mounted on the main.

That "twinned" radiator might work if you connect the tops of the rads instead of just the bottom. But it would be better to replace it with a single unit that will handle the load.

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

ScottMP

O.K.

"A" dimension is from the top of the water line (hot) to the bottom of the reducing ell at the end of the main ?

A rise and drip (sounds bad), would be to raise the "A" if the main is too low ?

A wet return is done when the "A" is not there ?

Look at photo called "ard feed", I think I have plenty of room to rise. Thats the runout to the two rads with the foam insulation tyed on.

Could I tee off that take off, and then run two 1" feeds individually ?

The wet return has been repaired at some point with a two foot section of black (" black, Ron" ). I think some of the return and probable the union between the two rads.

Feeding them seperatly I could vent them seperatly.

I think I will extend the main. Tee of individually for each unit.

Any Ideas why the vents are down low like that on the returns ?

No Ron we did'nt put in the ECT. But,you should see a couple of the take off's that have been moved. One inch copper with no insulaton.

New return could be copper, Huh Ron ?
Maybe I'll ......aahhh... I am being sucked over to the darkside. Help me Noel.

Scott

p.s. If you stare at the photo of the two rads long enough I swear it looks like Jimi .



To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

ScottMP

Thanks Frank

I can now go to the customer and confidenlty tell we can make this system work. They would like to get rid of the wet return, so I guess I just need to make sure I can get "A".

Thanks, If we do it I will get pictures.

Scott

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"