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Calling Hot Rod

Hi Hot Rod,
I wanted to find out from you,whether propolene glycol has
any effect on a magnesium anode in a glass lined hot water
tank. The customer is using the tank as a buffer for a
radiant floor application and I was thinking of pulling
the anode out of the HWT, in case there is some kind of
reaction between the anode and glycol. Thanks for now.

Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,841
    Yank it

    Although I can't say for cettain about mag anodes, I know glycol and aluminum don't get along. Really, with buffered glycols no need for the anode rod. In my opinion.

    That tapping, up high like that, makes a good spot for a air vent or T&P gauge when you remove the anode rod.


    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Mike Lampkin_2
    Mike Lampkin_2 Member Posts: 124
    Thanks for the reply...

    and also for the good tip on using the tapping.
    Regards, Mike Lampkin
  • Paul Rohrs
    Paul Rohrs Member Posts: 357
    WM Ultra

    I have been getting conflicting reports about propylene glycol and the Aluminum Weil-MClain Ultra. What happens with glycol and aluminum?

    PR
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,841
    Glycol and Ultras

    The glycol itself is fine, it's the buffers that are added to the glycols that don't get along with aluminum. Any fluid that gets to ph 10 will start to oxidize aluminum. Under this layer or perhaps bubbles of oxidation is where corrosion will start.

    Interestingly enough Dowfrost can be used with aluminum IF temperatures are kept below 150 F. "Above 150 the inhibitors will not fully protect aluminum" according to Dow engineering manuals.

    Fernox of England makes a product called Copal 22, I believe. Supposedly this will work in Aluminum applications. I have been told it may not pass EPA scrunity however.

    There is a product now available that was blended specifically to be used in hydronic systems that contain aluminum. Consider Pex al Pex and Onix tube have aluminum layers in the tube. There is a possibility the fluid could contact this aluminum layer via a connection or pinhole in the inner plastic or EDPM layers. So make sure the fluid in these systems is compatable with aluminum, and watch the PH carefully!

    Scott at Rhomar 417-860-2998 has been working with chemists to develop a hydronic "all metal" friendly additive for water and glycol based systems. Contact him for some info.


    hot rod

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,841
    Glycol and Ultras

    The glycol itself is fine, it's the buffers that are added to the glycols that don't get along with aluminum. Any fluid that gets to ph 10 will start to oxidize aluminum. Under this layer or perhaps bubbles of oxidation is where corrosion will start.

    Interestingly enough Dowfrost can be used with aluminum IF temperatures are kept below 150 F. "Above 150 the inhibitors will not fully protect aluminum" according to Dow engineering manuals.

    Fernox of England makes a product called Copal 22, I believe. Supposedly this will work in Aluminum applications. I have been told it may not pass EPA scrunity however.

    There is a product now available that was blended specifically to be used in hydronic systems that contain aluminum. Consider Pex al Pex and Onix tube have aluminum layers in the tube. There is a possibility the fluid could contact this aluminum layer via a connection or pinhole in the inner plastic or EDPM layers. So make sure the fluid in these systems is compatable with aluminum, and watch the PH carefully!

    Scott at Rhomar 417-860-2998 has been working with chemists to develop a hydronic "all metal" friendly additive for water and glycol based systems. Contact him for some info.


    hot rod

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Dana Zaichkin_2
    Dana Zaichkin_2 Member Posts: 36
    Hotrod

    On another note, you've referred to adding conditioners to your systems for corrosion protection regardless of the need for glycol - can you refresh me on who makes those products? Don't you also use de-ionized H20 from a bottled water supplier?

    Best Regards

    DZ
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,841
    First

    I test the water at the jobsite. Generally hardness and ph. (simple inexpensive testers to purchace) I fill an empty bottled water container or glass and let it set to see if any sediment settles out. Often my jobs have new wells so water varies greatly. If the test are OK I'll use the water on site. If it's reall cloudy or smells like iron or sulpher, beware!

    If in doubt I take a barrel (55 gallon plastic) of water from my shop. I only use DI water on my glycol jobs, as per the manufactures directions. Using poor quality water with glycols will use up all the inhibitors from the start. Same with a dirty system. The glycol or fill water can be boosted back up, with a boost kit.

    Rhomar has both a cleaner and inhibitor that is compatiable with aluminum and all the various tube and boiler components. Scott at 417-860-2998 can ship gallon sized quantities. It can be used with glycol also.

    hot rod


    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Drew_2
    Drew_2 Member Posts: 158
    P.G. & Aluminum

    The charts I've attached may clear up how pH effects various metals.

    Also, we manufacture a propylene glycol fluid for Aluminum
    boiler systems. This is a no-silicate formula. The brand name is Noburst AL. If you need further info, call me @ 800/678/6625 or drop me an Email.

    Drew
  • Drew_2
    Drew_2 Member Posts: 158
    P.G. & Aluminum

    The charts I've attached may clear up how pH effects various metals.

    Also, we manufacture a propylene glycol fluid for Aluminum
    boiler systems. This is a no-silicate formula. The brand name is Noburst AL. If you need further info, call me @ 800/678/6625 or drop me an Email.

    Drew
This discussion has been closed.