Vitodens this time with piping

GW

Can you fill me in on the circ size... 26-96 seems a little large for the llh.

Great looking job!

Gary

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Henry_4

Vitodens plus

I wanted to show a vitodens with piping, with this new install, and well lit work area, I now have the opportunity to oblige. This project was done by Huck Heating of Indianapolis and consists of rfh across the entire first floor, has a future connection point for pool heat (to be installed this summer), and does domestic. The neatest thing is still to come. A Viessmann solar system will be added to supplement domestic production in a tank that has an upper coil which connects to the boiler and a lower coil which will connect to the sun.

This is actually the home of the contractor and he is using it as a model. To highlight the differences between rfh and hot air furnaces, he installed a gas fired unit on the second floor and has already had folks in to check it out. For the past two weeks, the temperature has been less than 20 degrees and the home is a testament to the comfort differences. Both areas are set for 70F, but the comfort level is so totally different. Case in point, the new puppy, Daisy refuses to go to the FA section. Dogs are not stupid.

I will resubmit with solar pictures when it is ready.
Thanks,
Henry

Mark Hunt

Nice lookin job


I hope that the duct work on that AHU is sealed REALLY well.

I'd hate to think of the CO that the car will produce getting sucked into the system and pumped through the house.

Nice pipe work!

Mark H

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ScottMP

Very Nice

A couple of questions

Does Viessmann recommend the heat trap or was that done by the installer ?

Whos temperature gauges are those ?

How does the Vitoden come out of priority temp and then lower down for the RFH.

And most important PUT IN that overflow on the T+P valve !!

Nice job thanks for the pictures

Scott

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Henry_4

Nice to be noticed

by the senior staff of the wall. First of all, the solar gauges are by Weiss, it forces the issue of adequate lighting in the workspace. The heat trap is not a requirement, it was more a consideration of space and placement. In speaking to Joe Huck, he knows that the overflow on the T&P is necessary and will be putting it in.

With regards to priority, the boiler is programmed to respond on demand and then switch back to heating upon completion of demand. In the case of this project, the Nix switch relays are connected to the pumps and do not interface through the Vi control. As a result, the rfh pumps will run continuously even though the heating side pump on the boiler is not operating. In spite of this, there has been no degradation in heating /comfort in the house, and even with a double headed shower and large tub, domestic water has been satisfied to Mrs. Joe's desires.

The ducks are not worried about CO poison either, but as long as they are quacking, we know that the seals are holding.

Thanks,
Henry

Paul Pollets

Thermometers

I like the Weiss solar/digital thermometers!

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Henry_4

ironically

I get more comments on those thermometers
than any other part of the system, save the
boiler. A plumber introduced them to me on a
project and I have tried to recommend them on
many projects since then. It's the little
things!

Henry

Brad_3

I've done a number of solar hot water systems. I will be looking forward to seeing the solar install. Is the Veissmann solar heating system available in this country now? It looks very similar to the Thermomax from Britain, and the tubes were probably developed by (and might even be made by) the same German company, Schott (The company I work for is owned by Schott).

I have a question about this heating install. Why the extra pump in the heating loop, is the internal pump not adequate even with the low loss header?

Also, it seems like all of the plumbing I see in these installations is not insulated, shouldn't it be? With solar it's critical (at least in this climate).

I will be doing a radiant floor in my new house. I'm looking at a total heat load, at 10 deg F ASHRAE low temp, (which we haven't seen in western WA for many years) of less than 12,000 btuh. Yes it's extremely well insulated and sealed (and HRV), call me crazy if you'd like. I'm considering using the domestic water tank, a Vitocell B-300, as a tempering tank as well as domestic hw production, since I've not found a boiler that would likely not short cycle with such a small load. I haven't seen any reference to doing this, why? I see that the plumbing could be a bit on the tricky side, maybe too much so, or maybe something I'm not seeing? The lower coil on the tank would be solar.

With this set up I might even get the occasional solar boost for the radiant loop, though we don't count on that in this part of the country. Still, in the spring it could happen (if the south windows don't do it first).

The design indicates I'll need 85 F water, at most, in a dry floor system, aluminum on top with floating laminate floor on top of that. I'm currently expecting to use a manual three way mixer in the heating loop.

As for boilers, I'm considering an MZ25C. Are there any really, really small boilers with sealed combustion? Am toying with the idea of using a Rinnai or Takagi water heater with the potable water circulated through, using the temp sensor openings in the B-300 if they are what they look like in the literature, 1" (are they really open and can the 1/2" reducers be removed)?

Also I'm off grid so low electrical usage is a must (24 volt DC circulators).

Any comments welcome. Thanks,
Brad

Brad_3

Vitodens 200

If it turns out that tempering with the DHW tank is not practical, I'd consider the 200 since it's such a nice looking unit, but otherwise it has features not needed.

Brad

hot_rod

LLH

Henry,

I noticed the S&R taps for the boiler and system are exactly opposite of the header I am working with. Is there an option to order tappings on either left or right?

Warm Regards,

heatboy

"Expert in Silent Warmth" ™

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Henry_4

The LLH header connections

are based upon which way the front of the header is facing.
if the front of the header is facing the same direction as the boiler, the design will go right. If the header is facing to the back of the boiler, the design is to the left. The only must is that the header be in the vertical position with the sensor opening at 12 oclock.

Henry

Jim McCarthy

LLH Orientation

Jeff,

Here's the correct way to "flip" the LLH: Due to the piping orientations requirements of the LLH (system side and boiler side), a boiler installed in the "wrong" side of the LLH may lead to cross piping.

This is what should be done (applicable to all LLH sizes):

Simply rotate the LLH 180 degrees along its longitudinal axis such that the manual air bleed will be facing away from U. Of course in such a position, the manual air bleed function will not be available, however, air eliminations occur also at the automatic air vent on the boiler and at the highest points in the system as well.

If, on the other hand, you wanted to mount the LLH flush to a wall, then the above procedure will not work. Here is what should be done:

1- Remove sensor well from its factory connection location
2- Install the sensor in the opposite connection located at 180 of the original connection location. Use same procedures as per our manuals as of use of hemp and pipe sealant.
2- Flip the LLH upside down. Now the sensor well will be pointing upwards with drain connections at the bottom with the correct piping orientation for boiler side and system side. The manual air bleed function will be available in this case.(Limited)

Our manuals will be updated accordingly to cover the above scenarios.

Henry_4

Solar tubes

are manufactured in Europe. I do not know where exactly but they are available and I have designed ssytems in Chicago and Indy. I have yet to have an install.
As far as the pumps, the pump on the boiler side of the LLH is a boiler pump, circulating between the boiler and the header, there is no internal pump on this model, just on the smaller versions. It is controlled by the main boiler pump module. There is alos a pump returning from the domestic tank, both pumps are UP 26-96.
I spoke to the contractor about insulation, he wanted to be a show off in this case. The garage is heated, so the heat loss is not as great as it could be, and yes, with solar, he will need to insulate.

12K, build bigger. Your choce in domestic tank (B-300) is capable of absorbing up to 255k/h (optimum operation). Even if you figure a 40% solar gain, not uncommon, you will still require more btu's. The domestic water heater is an often use choice, and I will admit even to have used some, but my recommendation is to use a boiler.

Good luck,
Henry

Henry_4

I selected the 26-96

because I was looking for roughly 15 gpm at 15 ft hd. This pump selection comes pretty close to that, closer than the -64.
Thanks,
Henry