My Mom's hot water system

Craig_2

I wrote a while ago about my Mom's hot water system: two pipe, direct return, NOT pumping away, with two bottom-fed cast iron radiators on the second floor not heating.

I'm planning a trip up there and will be measuring EDR and other stuff as suggested. Something in the Pumping Away book has me thinking that perhaps the second floor radiators are air bound. How do you properly fill such a system or get rid of the air in those two radiators? Again, a book reference is fine with me. And this won't alter my plans to have it changed to a pumping away setup, assuming my Mom keeps the house.

-cf
Craig

Steamhead

First

try to bleed them. If nothing comes out- no air, no water- and nothing is blocking the vent port (such as paint) there probably isn't enough water in the system. You may need to replace the water fill valve.

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ta finnegan

Pumping away.

Dan's book gives the specific steps for filling the system once you put the pumping away module on. It's really easy and even my brother-in-law, a lazy carpenter, did it on his system.

For him I recommended a properly sized "Fill-trol" tank, which has an automatic feeder. Just be sure to put in a ball valve to isolate it once it is filled and purged.

Also, do not forget the low water cut-off.

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Craig_2

I was hoping...

...to make sure it is filled now before switching to the pumping-away setup. You know, something to try the next time I'm up there.

Craig_2

I've bled

I get some air and then nothing when I try to bleed these radiators.

I'm assuming changing the near boiler piping to a pumping away configuration is expensive. Maybe I'm all wet about that (pun intended). Is it possible for someone to ballpark the cost? I have a halfway decent picture of the boiler I can post on Monday. I understand nobody can offer a binding estimate. I ddon't expect that. I'm just wondering if this will cost $500 or $1500. I need to plan ahead with my budget.

-cf

Gerry Harris_2

Pumping Away

I am all for pumping away on new installs and alteration work, but this system obviously has worked with the circulator on the return for many, many years. while it is beneficial to have the circulator "pumping" away it is not a necessity for the system to operate. You have air getting into the system from somewhere and need to get it out. Are you bleeding the system with enough pressure on it? Is the circulator off? Have you bled the whole system or just the problem area? I would try purging the whole system (all the rads) check for any self bleeders, if they are old replace them, and make sure you have enough pressure. If all is correct and it still hasnt solved the problem,I would install a spirovent on the system as per manufacturers specs. Gerry

Mark Hunt

You may


have mentioned this in an earlier post but, what is the system pressure at when the boiler is cold?

You should see somewhere around 12psi.

What type of expansion tank is on the system? A diaphram type, or a steel compression?

Mark H

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Craig_2

More info

It's possible the system was converted from gravity hot water. Don't know the PSI. Have to check that. The two radiators on the second floor were added mucho years ago by my Dad. They never heated well but at leaast they used to heat. Original (circa 1930's?) boiler was replaced 10 years ago and radiators on second floor stopped heating. Most of the rads are baseboard units. Basement units are not baseboard. It's a steel compression tank up in the rafters of the basement.

-cf

Mark Hunt

Craig


Can you take some pictures of the piping, especially where the radiators tie into the mains?

And pictures of the boiler piping would be useful as well.

Mark H

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Boilerpro

Are you sure the air is going out of the air vent?

I had a sysemm last year with a small leak and a bad pressure reducing valve. If you opened the vents on the second floor radiators you'd hear a whistle, but THE AIR WAS GOING IN because the leak was causing the system to go into vacumn!

Boilerpro

Craig_2

Never thought of that

I'll add that to the list to check. Never even though of that.

-cf

Craig_2

Will do

Have some already. I'll scan them tomorrow and post.

-cf