Weil-McLain Ultra

Terry_4

Any Wallies have experience with the Ultra yet? We are getting ready to use one on a new residence and would appreciate any input. Thanks, Terry

PS I'm scheduled to attend an all day seminar on them tomorrow, (Wed 1/15/03) sponsored by the wholesaler.
any comments/questions I should ask them?

Boilerpro

I understand they heaved the electric ignitor in favor of spark

I hope the rest of the boiler industry doesn't follow the forced air industry down the high maintenance path of electric ignitors. Good Move WM.

Boilerpro

Bill Barrett

Seminar

So Terry how was the seminar?

Steve Eayrs

My question is....


for a boiler that starts around $3000, and is aluminum, why does it have only a 15 year warranty on the heat exchanger? The first 10 years are full, the last 5 years tapper off to nothing. Their are a lot of 12 year water heater out there. I think I want to see the track record first, or at least a better warranty, ebfore stepping on this one.
Steve

Terry_4

as it turns out

most of the day was spent on Wirsbo and Taco with only about 30 minutes on the Ultra.

I didn't really learn anything that you can't read on the brochure. Apparently nobody around here has even seen one yet. So...? It looks like it might be ok but I'll reserve judgement until I've seen one in operation for a while. It is spark ignition by the way.

I'd like to see a side by side comparison with the Vitodens.

Steve Ebels

In my humble opinion

There is nothing out there that you could "side by side" compare with a Vitodens. The Matrix burner alone on the Vitodens sets it in a league all by itself.

Bill Barrett

Vitodens

Well I looked at Weils new offer, I've used couple Dunkirk Q-90s, not sure I like the aluminum idea, been using Munckins, like them pretty well . I have some info and pricing coming on Vitodens,reading and looking at then on the internet is giving me goosebumps, I can't wait to get my hands on one! Man I need to get a life!

DKH

ultra

Saw the Ultra last night.It looks nice but for the price it has limited applications.It always has to be piped in a primary /secondary arrangement, unless it is used as a dedecated low temperature system.The boiler can not be part of the primary loop,which in a lot of multi temperature installations this works well.The parts also sound expensive and at some point you will need parts.It is marketed as a "high end customer product" my high customers are the first ones to discuss cost vs benifit.Hope to see more at AHR in Chigago.

Dr. Heat

3 up and looking pretty good so far

I have sold 3 Ultras that are up and running at this time they all seem to functioning without a problem 2 155's and 1 230 btu's today I'll be asisting my customer in firing up his 2nd that will make 4 up they have all fired up and ran well Il let you know if I / he has any problem

joel_14

Aluminium doesn't even make a good beer holder

Aluminum is a HORENDOUS material to make a boiler from as far as I'm concerned. the hot air industry tried condensing furnaces made from Aluminum years ago and they all failed due to codensate corosion. Lennox in particular faced some nasty lawsuits over the issue. I've asked Dunkirk several times how they will keep it from coroding if it is trully condensing they have yet to give me an answer. Unless of course it doesn't condense??? Hmmmm under what conditions water temp wise is it over 90%.I bet the W.M boys can't answer the corosion issue either. Consider this, all of the units I've seen that condense or come close need a stainless steel or plastic flue pipe. How come you can't use Aluminum or galvy flue pipe I ask the rep, "Because it would rust right out!! aluminum can't handle ....." Then he stopped and caught himself. Do youself a favor, Viessmann has sold Vitodens in stainless since 92, 11 year proven track record. why gamble with those other guys??? I can hear the protest coming my way right now, "But these are big companies they wouldn't make that kind of mistake!!" Answer: the schorched air guys as outlined above made that mistake and they are much bigger than any boiler company. Sam Adams, doesn't come in a can either...

hot_rod

I suppose

that aluminum HX could work well, under the right circumstances. As I understand that block has been around for some time overseas. History in the making??? Weil's first ever non cast iron boiler!

The MZ has a pretty long proven track record with aluminum. Sure is a lot of aluminum in the automotive industry theses days seeing just as much thermal stress. Blocks, cylinder heads, radiators, etc. Not uncommon for an engine block to go from zero or below to 200 degrees or more in a short period of time.

The key will be the care and maintenance of the fluids. Very narrow tolerance level in this area. Policing the installers regarding proper cleaning and fluid selection will be the biggest challange, I feel. Definitely don't want to dump in untested tap water.

Where did I put my "hydronic" crystal ball, again

hot rod

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Michael B

speaking from

a little bit of experience I would rather have a heat exchanger with a lot of forgiveness then relying on maintaining good water balance over the long haul..don't you agree hr?

hot_rod

On the other hand

gotta give the manufactures credit for trying to give the contractors exactly what they have been asking for! High efficiency, modulating, sealed combustion, wall hung, attractive. I suspect we haven't seen the last of this type of "out" or should I say "in the box" approch.

Who will step up to the plate, anyone, anyone? Sounds to me like sales are happening regarding this product??

Ahh the pioneers, where would we be without them

hot rod

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

joel_14

Hot rod

Don't get me wrong! who wants to lug cast iron around??? not me I've got the bad discs to prove it. if they can make it work in aluminum why not!! Problem is can they??? Condensate is nasty stuff. On hot air furnaces from York the primary non condensing chamber is aluminized steel secondary chamber is stainless where condensing takes place. Right in the literature york says not to use the furnace for long periods of time at temp settings of 55f or less. Reason is this will cause condensation in the primary and destroy the primary heat exchanger and void the warrantee!! I'm wondering what those boiler guys know that the furnace guys do not! Iagree withyou on the thermal stress thing I'm not as concerned about that.

Dennis - Reliable Services

You would be talking

about the Lennox Pulse furnace, the primary heat exchanger was made out of cast steel and plate steel the secondary was made out of stainless steel. The problem was with some of the 10 and 15 year old units that had weld failures on the joints to the secondary exchangers. Lennox was not sued that I know of but they did replace every failed heat exchanger or give a new 90+ heater for free to all who qualified. Smart company, York ignored the same problem and lost in court to the tune of $10 millon the award to the family of the 10 people who died.

Dennis - Reliable Services

Lennox

does make a 90+ boiler its made from stainless steel.

John Abbott