LK PE-Xa pipe- Better or not?

tombig

Oops...I knew that quick trac was 5/16. Thanks for the input. I trust Wirsbo products and will continue to use them. Heavier gage emmission plates are an option. Do they really transfer more heat or do they just hold the heat longer in an off cycle?

mike14

LK PE-Xa pipe, better or not?

I'm doing research on piping for a RFH project in my home. I am working with a local contractor, but I want to specify the best PEX available because I'm going to be in the house for a long time. I was going to go with WIRSBO until I stumbled upon the "Mr PEX" site and read about Mr Lenman's depature from WIRSBO to start his own company and develop the LK PE-Xa pipe. It sounds like it's more flexible and easier to install. Since I may be doing some of the install myself, I wondered if anyone out there has worked the the LK PE-Xa pipe and can separate fact from hype. Thanks in advance for any responses.

Mike G.

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

So far

it's been everything it's cracked up to be.

We've used it on a few jobs now and the workability is much better than any of the other barrier PEX brands we've used; very flexible.

Dunno about the long term viability; it's a fairly new product and the results aren't in yet. I've spoken to a few contractors about it and they don't want to try anything new until it's proven itself.



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hr

Depends on the application

Anymore, I like the Pex al pex products for wide open slab installs. Stays put much better than regular pex. Installs easier in the cold weather also.

Pretty hard to beat 3/8" Wirsbo hepex for working in tight crawl space retro fits. It seems to be the most flexible product I have used. In fact all my joist bay and transfer plate applications are now 3/8"

Personally haven't used the Mr Pex brand. I have a few short samples. can't give you an honest opinion on it's flexability advantage.

hot rod

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mike14

LK PE-Xa pipe

Thanks for the quick responses.
The application is in a non-walkout basement of an existing home, well insulated basement walls and pretty energy efficient overall. However, the existing floor slab is not insulated so I intend to use some form of thermal break such as 1/4 inch polystyrene or one of the bubble/foil products under a gypcrete overpour. Any suggestions on the best thermal break under these circumstances? The contractor seems to be waffling on what to use.

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

You might want to try

Insultarp available from Northern Wholesale (800)666-1111. They will even send you a sample. It seems to be better than any bubble product.

I'd put down some 6 x 6 welded wire mesh on top of the Insultarp and screw the mesh down with fender washers and Tapcon screws and tie the tubing to the mesh.

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hr

How much thickness

are you willing to work in? I, also, like the InsulTarp for a thin insulation layer. If you can give up an inch and a half, foamboard would give more R-value, no doubt.

The InsulTarp would also provide a vapor barrier for you. I'm not sure you would need to screw it down the remesh IF you buy the flat sheets instead of the roll type. Most concrete equipment supply houses and steel supply places have, or can get up to 8X20 foot sheets of 6X6#10.

This way you wouldn't compromise the vapor barrier feature of the InsulTarp, by fastening through it. Any insulation you can work in would be better than a slap against slab pour.

I'm assuming a 3-1/2" - 4" pour, correct? What's the final floor covering? If it is going to be covered consider a fiber mesh additive to the mix. Also a foam or expansion strip around the edge for a thermal break and to alleviate external restraint cracking when the slab expands from the heat applied.

hot rod

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tombig

3/8 Hepex

I didn't even know Wirsbo made 3/8 till quick trac came out. I'm a little daunted by the short loop lengths. I've used 5/8 in slab or gyp on subfloor with copper to accessed panel manifolds. Never an air problem and I have an aversion to plastic in the walls..old school I guess. Most applications are 3-4 loops. I'm sizing my first staple up and know I'm not going to get 8" centers in a 16" joist space with 5/8. My supplier has double groove in 1/2 and 5/8. Never even thought about 3/8. 1300 s.f./floor is 6-8 3/8 loops. IF Wirsbo makes a double track for 3/8 tube it's not in my suppliers catalog. The job's not sold (but I'm confident it will be) so I'm still exploring options. I've used ultra-fin for floor warming only to date but it's been a good product to use in open web truss applications. I'm still a little leery to use it for primary heat. Curious...what temps should you run in a staple up with 3/4 subfloor and 3/4 hardwood. Thanks guys, I've learned more in two months of visiting this site than I have from a score of suppliers. Tom Goebig, Chicago and yes Dan, I'm going to Wetstock II

hr

Don't confuse

3/8" pex with the tube used in Quiktrak or Climate panel. Those systems use a 5/16" OD tube.

I'm a little nervous of the id of 5/16" tube. I've seen plenty of plugged solar roll and twintran tubes after years of use. Keeping in mind, of course, that the quality of the fluid inside the tube lead to corrosion and plugged tubes.

I'm comfortable with 3/8", 200 foot loops, and low head pumps Aluminum transfer plates are available for 3/8 tube. Radiant Engineering offers them, RTI does, and I think they are now available from Wirsbo. Stick with the heavy gauge, as opposed to the twin plates. Worth the extra money, just my opinion:)

hot rod

hot rod

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Tom Meyer

Latest and greatest from Wirsbo

If you have specific questions about Wirsbo products and applications, drop a line to Wes Sisco.

He's got alot of field experience and is just plain good people.

I trust him.

wsisco@wirsbo.com

Tom Meyer
Senior Designer/Trainer
Precision Hydronics
www.precisionhydronics.com

heatboy

The old saying.........

"If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is." comes into play here. I have worked with several brands of tube over the years, but my favorite, by far, is Wirsbo. I see no reason to switch to another brand.

Warm Regards,

hb

climatecadvanced.com

"Expert in Silent Warmth" ™

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Chris Maderia

The Best Pex

I personally feel that the term Best Pex is irrelevant. In our applications we will never see the pressures and the limitations that would actually test the strength of each brand to it's actual limits.

I have used everyone of them and they all have there advantages and disadvantages. It comes down to which salesperson gave the best presentation to the customer and contractor trust in that product.

Now if you really want the true anwser to your question the strongest pex out there on the market today based on it's tensile yield strenght and quick burst test results would be Zurn's Qest Pex. Here's the data to back it up.

Tensile Yield Strenght: is the stress point at which the material becomes permanently deformed.

Material Tensile Yield Strength
QestPex (Pex 2922 @ 73 degrees/1806 @ 180 degrees
Engle Method (Pex A) 2438 @ 73 degrees/1647 @ 180 degress
Radiation (Pex C) 2753 @ 73 degrees/1501 @ 180 degrees

Quick Burst @ 180 degrees
Qest Pex 375lbs
Engle 305lbs
Radiation 315lbs

QestPex also offers UV protection for up to six months, a much stronger warranty and it is one of the only Pex tubings out there that has been rated for chlorine resistence for levels up to 2ppm @ 140 degrees.

It also has a stronger warranty the brand you speak of.