Taco ESP Valves

Unknown

I have not heard of any boards being damaged. The problem is that equipment is cycled on for a short time and then shuts down when there is no call for heat.

Honeywell lists what they call their Advanced Power Stealing which use a lower .1 mA to 10 mA than the old ones that use 10 mA to 20 mA to operate.

The advanced Power Stealing from Honeywell are:

T8000

T8700

T8600

and non programmable T8400 thermostat families

For use with Taco Zone Valves (Not ESP) they recommend part number 4074EYC to be used with TACO zone valves. I can not find that part listed anywhere in Honeywell catalog. I will have to look and see if it is a TACO number.

There is info on Advanced Power Stealing Honeywell T'stats on page 124 in Honeywell's catalog.

Pete Millar (PM)

Taco ESP Valves

SO now we find out!!! Taco says their ESP zone valves don't work with power stealing thermostats! They call it a "compatibility" problem

It is beyond me how they can do this! We've got jobs out there with 10 to 12 valves/t'stats each!!!! What're we supposed to do, suck it up and change all that stuff out at our expense???

Once again, we're Beta Testers for the Big Boys.

Any ideas out there? I'm thinking revenge... voodoo dolls, whatever!

Unknown

Compatibility

Taco is not the only controls to have problems with power stealing thermostats. They may just not have been aware of it being a problem. They have however had to isolate there old three wire ZV with certain electronic controls in the past, not for the same reason.

Power Stealing thermostats can affect almost all electronic controls, Electronic Fan Timers, Integrated furnace and boiler controls etc. They will cause the units to be momentarily energized, combustion air blowers coming on, vent dampers opening etc. With out getting into the electronics it is something to watch out for.

The solution is to use isolating relays or place a 100 ohm 10 watt resistor across "W" and "C" on the thermostat. Some controls have a built in resistor to stop this from happening, such as some vent dampers.

This is a typical problem with a lot of electronic controls. Read the directions on controls to make sure they are compatible.

Rick Kelly

So

Is that why Taco supplied a resistor with each ESP valve?

Unknown

No the resistor

is to help the valve to open faster. Especially when it is used on indirect hot water.

John Felciano

Some

of the companies that make power stealing stats send a resistor with the stat.Taco has a list of thermostat compadability.

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John G. Merritt

Power stealing thermostats?

Fellas,

Is it a fact that certain power stealing thermostats
can affect or ruin circuit boards?
Can anyone give me an example of a power stealing thermostat?

John

John G. Merritt

ESP valves

Fellas,

I hate to sound stupid, but what does ESP stand for on the Taco ESP?

John

John G. Merritt

Power Stealing?

Fellas,

Why do they call them "power stealing" thermostats.
I really don't have a clue about this.

John

Unknown

Answer to questions

1. ESP I believe stands for Extra Sensory Perception. All the functions of the zone valve are monitored by a powerful microprocessor. It uses a gold star capacitor instead of mechanical so it is a gear driven, capacitor powered zone valve.

2. Power Stealing electronic thermostats draw energy for operating from the heating and cooling equipment. They have several advantages over battery powered or hard wired thermostats. They do not require batteries to operate.

Power stealing thermostats continously draw a small amount of current from the heating and cooling system to operate. When the thrermostat is not calling the thermostat "steals" enough power to operate by allowing a small amount of current to flow through it into the relay coil.

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

ESP

in the case of Taco zone valves stands for "Energy Storage Principle" whereby energy gets stored in a capacitor on a call for heat. Once the capacitor is charged, it opens the zone valve and since it's a ball valve, no further energy is needed to keep the valve open. Voila; an open zone valve that stays open without power input.

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roger provencher

ESP liability warning

I have had a number of valves not fully closing, two were installed on indirect heaters and 200 degree domestic hot water was supplied, had one serious burn on a child . this is with an aquastat and not a power robbing TT, so much on that excuse

Rich

Zone Valves.

Reminds me of a job along time ago. Tried a new type of recommended T-stat by the name of Columbus elecric. We put them on because they were easier to see for the home owner.The customer and for the that matter the tech who installed them, were baffled as to why the new t-stats did not work.Low and behold. The company who made these valves did not mention that a unsupplied "resistor?" was needed to make them compatible. The power head on the taco zone valves would not "make" without this.After many problems with zone valves since then. I have just about swore them all off. When possible. I stick with more reliable,more inexpensive and the more compatible...circulators.

Glenn Harrison

That's a good point Roger

I have two customers that have sticking valves too, both with battery operated White Rodgers t-stats on them. First round of valves stuck closed and replacement round of heads now stick open.

Glenn Harrison

Althoff Industries Inc.

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Glenn Harrison

Timmie,

I believe it was stated by Mark Chaffee @ Taco in a previous post on E.S.P. valves that the resistor should be used wtih electronic thermostats to prevent problems, in addition to their abbility to speed up the valves. Do a Wall search on ESP valves to double check me on this.

Glenn Harrison

Althoff Industries Inc.

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Unknown

Thanks Glenn I was

looking for that info in my files I believe you are correct.

Pete Millar (PM)

Corporate \"Think\"

How many of you Read the fine print? Of course we should, but then we'd be all-knowing, right? And there would be no manufacturer-generated errors or misunderstandings. I just wish the Mfrs would take a PROACTIVE approach to information supply rather than letting it trickle down to the installers and users through PROBLEMS that shouldn't be ours in the first place, and for which we have to sek a solution through the grapevine.. There's Taco making the BIG BUCKS and we're holding their hands for them. Typical corporate B.S. We shouldn't stand for this. We should demand better. We deserve better.

Hey brilliant TACO guys. Some Simple ideas: Why not put a sticker on each unit indicating the required "resistor" fix. Or how about a bright colored card in each box with a warning? Or maybe the problems are deeper than that? Maybe R & D got overrun by Marketing and there you go, customers doing BETA testing again... At our expense instead of yours. I think this is unacceptable nonsense for corporations to do this. I'm going to walk with my checkbook until they offer something better in exchange. After all, I'm offering money in exchange for a product AND follow up service... In this case the former is seriously flawed and I certainly don't see a lot of the latter.

Pat Clark

New products

This is how our company deals with new products. We wait and see how they work out in our market before we endorse them for our customers. So many manufacturers come up with great ideas, but fail to test them in the real world (they work great in the test lab environment) before jazzing up the sales rep to move em out. We just sit back and wait and if they prove out, then we buy.

We have used Taco zone valves for years, and several months ago our rep came in smiles as big as watermelon and said, "Here is the NEW Taco ESP valve, they are great, how many do you want to order, everyone is switching over to them."

We still use the old style Taco valve and from what I have heard from other company's and also info on this wall, that is where we will stay.

Slow is sometimes better in the long run. Remember the old fable of the Hare and the Tortouse (sp?)

My Monday morning input.

Merry Christmas to everyone. We get Santa first here in Alaska, but will make sure he keeps a few things for all the rest of you.

Pat

Bell Plumbing & Heating

Pete Millar (PM)

Wisdom IS Hard to Come By

Especially for those or us who REALLY like technology it's very tough to hold off with the "old stuff". Having been in product development I know how hard it is to debug even the simplest product. So I do have some sympathy for the manufacturers. However, I do fantasize about companies releasing a limited number of trial components to users (not distributors, not salesmen, not their best customers, but their LEAST informed customer... let them rip 'em apart)B4 selling them into larger market beta test. I mean, we found flaws in the ESP first time off... that didn't take a lot of "research" did it?

Merry Christmas!