Who makes the best Steam Boiler?

[Deleted User]

Hello: I am in the market to replace my 2o year old steam boiler with a new one. I have no idea about this area. Is there a brand that is better then others? Is there certain things I should look for etc? Where do I go to buy these?

Any help/links would be appreciated. I am guessing that this is going to be a pretty big expense?

Tim_12

you may want to inquire from your oil company, There are a couple of steam boilers I like are, Peerless and Wiel Mclain Gold series. Burnham also makes a steam boiler.

Good Luck!!

cw

I'm in the same boat you are, the plumber I am using first recommended a Weil Mclane, but then changed and said a Burnham was best suited for the system I have now. As far as price range, It varies from contractor to contractor. A lot of it will depend on how much you get charged for labor. The price of the boiler should be pretty much the same. So get a breakdown from your plumber and see who charges more for installation.

Gregg Jackson

instead of asking for a breakdown.......

time would be better spent checking the value of the contractors price. Check references. Look at some pictures of completed jobs. Ask if they have a procedures manual of how they remove and install boilers. How will they protect your home? Will they come out on warranty and service calls? Are the technicians licensed and knowledgable about the system they will install? These things should be contemplated over a price breakdown.

Just my opninion

Gregg

Roger Litman

Contractor more important than brand

If you pay peanuts- you get monkeys- The brand of the boiler is almost insignificant compared to the knowledge and ability of the men installing it.One of my men spent two days fixing a system that was installed by a monkey who used a well known brand. Look for someone who will stand behind(close behind) his work, a good mechanic knows that he is good and expects to be paid accordingly- a bum charges what he is worth and runs away at the first sign of trouble which he usually causes himself.

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

DanHolohan

I agree

And for you homeowners, here's part of an article I wrote for Old-House Journal in 1995.

How to Replace a Boiler (without getting steamed!)

"We haven't had decent heat since that heating contractor left our basement," the woman complained. She was about as angry as any homeowner who had ever called me. "We paid good money for that new boiler," she continued, "but we still have uneven heat throughout the house, just like we did before. And it sounds like the hammers of hell are pounding on the pipes, just as they did before. What do you think we should do?"

I felt her frustration, but I have to admit, my first thought wasn't about what she should do. I was thinking about what she should have done. You see, the way I figure it, the best time to discuss heating problems is when you're contracting the job, not after the job is finished.
There's an easy way to avoid the most common heating problems. All it takes is a good checklist, some negotiating skills, and the willingness to shop for the best value rather than the lowest price.

Here's some advice I'd give my best friend if she were shopping for a boiler.

Let's say you have a steam system . . .

If your steam boiler leaks, or if you realize the old unit has the efficiency of a campfire, you're probably going to find yourself interviewing heating contractors. Only the bravest do-it-yourselfer will tackle an old steam system. As you negotiate with your contractor make sure you do these things:

* Walk them through your home and discuss your comfort concerns. If it's too hot in this room and too cold in that, let the contractor know. If there are gurgling or banging noises in the pipes or radiators, mention them, and ask the contractor to suggest a remedy.

Don't expect a new boiler to magically solve your system-related problems. Explain to the contractor that you're buying comfort, not just a new boiler, and that you expect the entire system - boiler, pipes and radiators - to work properly when the job is done.

At this point, a good heating contractor will most likely explain your options. Don't be surprised if those options add to the cost of the job. Many steam systems suffer from ailments that have nothing to do with the boiler. When the contractor suggests these changes, ask if he will guarantee results. A good heating contractor will. If he's not willing to stand behind his work, there's a good chance he doesn't know what he's doing. Call someone else.

* Don't let the contractor base the size of your new boiler on the size of your old boiler. He must measure your radiators and analyze their ability to condense steam. If he bases the size of your new boiler solely on the size of your present boiler, he's discounting the possibility that something may have changed during the past 60 or 70 years. He's also acknowledging that the original installer was infallible. (Chances are, that guy wasn't!)
If the contractor says, "Well, the old one worked well for years so let's use the same size," know that this guy is not someone who pays attention to details. Show him to the door.

* Also, don't let the contractor base the size of your new boiler on a heat-loss calculation of your home. Believe it or not, heat loss calculations mean absolutely nothing when it comes time to replace an old steam boiler. These calculations mean a lot when you're sizing the steam radiators, but you're not replacing the radiators, are you?

Consider this. Steam is a gas that will eagerly condense on cold metal. The boiler must be able to make enough steam to reach the furthest radiator before all the steam turns to water. In other words, the boiler's ability to produce steam must match the system's ability to condense steam. If the boiler is too small, parts of your home will always be cold. You'll burn lots of fuel. If the boiler is too large, the burner will short-cycle, run inefficiently and the burner parts and controls will wear out long before their time.

If the contractor doesn't take the time to survey and carefully measure your pipes and radiation, he doesn't understand steam heating. Tell him to have a nice day, and then throw him out.

* The piping around a modern steam boiler is crucial to the production of "dry" steam (steam that contains no more than 2% water). If the steam is wet, it will condense before it reaches all of your radiators. You'll wind up with high fuel bills and uncomfortable rooms.
Nowadays, most reputable steam boiler manufacturers consider the piping immediately around the boiler to be a part of the boiler. They publish installation booklets showing the contractors how they must install their boilers. If a contractor doesn't follow the manufacturer's instructions, the boiler won't operate efficiently, and there's a good chance the manufacturer won't honor their warranty should you have a problem.

So, insist on seeing the installation-and-operating manual beforehand. Have the contractor show you the correct near-boiler piping for the unit. And have him include in his contract a clause saying that he will install the boiler in full accordance with those instructions. This alone will scare away heating contractors who don't know what they're doing when it comes to old steam systems. Good riddance to those guys!

* Don't accept copper tubing for the boiler's supply piping. Copper expands and contracts much more than steel. Because steam piping can take some odd angles, the expansion of the copper often puts a lot of torque on the soldered joints. That twisting action frequently causes the joints to come undone after a few years. And then you're on your own.

Proper steam piping calls for threaded steel pipe and fittings. The threads allow the steel pipe to twist without coming apart. Copper tubing is the province of the low bidder. If you're planning to stay a while in your old house, insist on properly installed, threaded steel pipe.

* Modern high-efficiency boilers sometimes don't get along well with old chimneys. Make sure you ask every heating contractor who steps into your home about your chimney. This is for your safety and protection.

An old chimney may need to be lined with stainless steel to keep the flue gases from condensing inside the chimney. Condensing gases form an acid that can eat through the mortar and cause parts of your chimney to fall apart. This, of course, leads to poor venting and potentially dangerous levels of carbon monoxide in your home. Carbon monoxide is deadly. If the contractor won't talk about your chimney - if all he cares about is the boiler sale - he is not a professional. Go no further with this person.

* Steam pipes must be insulated to keep the steam from condensing before it reaches the radiators. In the old days, we used asbestos. Nowadays, we spend a lot of money removing the asbestos, and we rarely replace it. Most folks figure the heat isn't "lost" because it's still inside the house. But if the steam is condensing in your basement pipes, it won't be condensing in your bedroom radiators on the second floor. You'll be burning lots of fuel and you'll be miserably cold.

If your steam supply pipes are uninsulated, have the contractor include a price for new insulation. Or insulate them yourself. You can work wonders with a few rolls of fiberglass insulation and some duct tape. It may not look pretty, but it works well.

* Reputable boiler manufacturers include cleaning instructions in their installation-and-operating manuals. The contractor must follow these instructions if your new boiler is to make dry steam. Have the contractor show you these instructions, and have him write on the contract that he will follow them to the letter. Then make sure he does.

It takes nearly a full day to properly clean an old steam system. There is no chemical or magic potion I know of that can make decades worth of dirt vanish. Don't accept shortcuts.

* Have the contractor install a drain valve in the boiler's mud leg. The mud leg is the drum at the very bottom of the boiler, the place where sediment will gather. If you don't insist on this drain valve, you probably won't get it. Most contractors will leave the drain valve out to save a few bucks, but without it, you won't have a way to flush sediment from your boiler as the years go by. Dirty boilers have shorter life spans than clean boilers.

* Get the contractor to inspect your air vents and replace them if necessary. You'll find these air vents on your radiators (if you have a one-pipe steam system) and near the ends of your mains (on both one- and two-pipe steam system). Good air vents make a dramatic difference in system performance. Even a brand-new boiler will gobble fuel if the air vents are old and clogged.
Be prepared to pay extra for the vents. But take some comfort in knowing that this is one of the best investments you can make in your old steam system.

* Heating contractors buy their equipment from plumbing and heating wholesalers who handle specific brands of boilers. Since the wholesaler extends credit to the contractor, the contractor will usually buy what the wholesaler stocks.

Because of this, you may find it difficult to get three or four competitive prices if you base the comparison on a particular boiler. You see, the contractors you speak to may buy from different wholesalers. If you ask for Brand A and the contractors' wholesalers stock Brands B or C or D, each contractor will try to sway you to the brand he's used to installing.

Rather than try to level the playing field by having them all quote on a certain boiler, do this: Let each contractor quote on what he thinks will best heat your home, but have each contractor guarantee the results in writing. Have them say, for instance, that when they're finished, your house will heat comfortably, evenly and with no noise or squirting air vents. Some contractors will run for the hills when they realize you're buying results instead of just a boiler, but you're better off without those guys anyway.

A good contractor will talk to you seriously about your system's problems and their solution. He'll most likely suggest things that go beyond a simple boiler replacement. There are people out there who have no problem guaranteeing results.

A final note on steam heating. Competent steam contractors generally charge more for a boiler replacement than others, but these guys deliver those wonderful results - increased comfort and substantial fuel savings. They'll never be the low-bidder, but they're well worth their price.

And please remember that to be proficient at steam heating, a contractor doesn't have to be 70 or 80 years old. He just has to be someone who's done his homework well, and who knows how to listen well to your concerns about comfort in your old house.

Unknown

All the replies are on the money

The installation is the most important part of a steam boiler replacement . Performance - wise , they all will give you excellent results . I would pick a cast iron boiler with steel or cast iron push nipples holding the sections together . We have used the Peerless line in the past , and they have given us no problems whatsoever . We recently started using the Burnham line , and they seem to perform just as well .

Things to look for - make sure the boiler is sized right for the heat , Make sure it is piped to the manufacturers specs ( extremely important ) , make sure they install an isolation valve and drain on the return to flush it out , as well as a good sized skim valve on the boiler , have the company install or replace the main vent for every steam main pipe , and look into replacing all the radiator vents .

Jim_8

Price of the boiler

No offense intended but your narrow view of what you think goes into pricing a boiler replacement is going to do nothing but get you into trouble down the road. when it comes to steam replacements you will find you are paying for the knowledge of the installer first and all else second. The boiler is not the only part ( unless you don't know what you are doing )that gets replaced. You have all the near boiler piping to replace including fixing piping that has been changed over the years when it may have been replaced before. you also have wet returns (maybe depending on style of system) that can have 75 to 100 years worth of sediment and scale in that will need to be replaced. You might have missing main vents that need to be reinstalled or relocated to the proper location, or just replaced along with radiator vents. You will have a system that will need to be skimmed after the job is done. No taking the easy way out and piping the job in copper, black iron piping only thank you. You have different control packages from mechanical to electronic.There is so much more to replacing a steam boiler than just the boiler and labor. Please do you and your family a big favor and find a person who is well versed in the lost art of steam.

Boilerpro

AMEN! nm

Unknown

Umm ,

I thought that was why this homeowner was posting the question - to broaden his view of whats involved . I thought his questions were right on the mark to point himself in the right direction . I know around here it is hit and miss concerning a typical steam boiler replacement . Some companys look at the whole system in the replacement - others will do a chop and swap .