oil fired condensing boilers

Steve Ebels

A condensing oil burner is worth the expense and risk of making/using the technology. As HB said oil requires very low temps to condense. This is why the same boiler fired with oil as opposed to gas is more efficient. It would be a rare system that operated at or below oil's condensation point. When you can install a Buderus or Viessmann and have it easily running in the high 80% range, what are you going to spend/risk for an additional 2-4% if it's even attainable.

JMHO

ed wallace

oil fired condensing boilers

looking for the manufacterers of oil fired condensing boilers i know of viesman,mz,and buderas any others?i know munckin is coming out with one any help would be appreciated

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joel_14

condensing

Viessmann and Buderous do not sell condensing boilers inoil in the U.S. The only 1 iknow of is monitor. looks cool but my concern is when you condense oil you create sulphuric acid. our oil has more sulphur than europe will these units stand up to it???

ed wallace

condensing boiler

ok i must be confusing condensing with direct vent customer is talking about direct vent either buderus or viesman i thought it was like gas systems 90+ direct vent condensing boilers 80+ use chimney my mistake 500 lashes with a wet noodle or the hydronic equevalant

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Alan R. Mercurio

Ed, Actually Monitor does in fact make an oil condensing boiler they call it the FCX
http://www.monitorproducts.com/
and Munchkin is working on one also I believe http://www.htproducts.com/
then there is also Quietside who makes one http://www.quietside.com./ a gentlemen recently posted information on my web site regarding the successful installation of his first Quietside. You'll have go back a few pages to see that post.

Your friend in the industry,
Alan R. Mercurio

Oil Tech Talk

munchkin-man

oil fired condensing boiler

we are wooking on one and is still in the r&d stages. You will all know it when this babie comes out

heatboy

Condensing &Fuel Oil.

I am intrigued by the thought of having reliable condensing oil fired eqipment. I have always thought it to be impractical for three main reasons.

1. Fuel oil doesn't condense till 105°F or so. Very difficult to design a system around those water temps.

2. What little condensate there is, will be extremely corrosive. What to do with the sulfur based waste? And what metal do you think can tolerate it?

3. Soot. The current burner technology here is not capable of burning clean enough for condensing.

It doesn't sound like it's worth the effort. Someone will need to prove to me that it can be done.

Warm Regards,

heatboy

"Expert in Silent Warmth"™

610.250.9885

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Alan R. Mercurio

Heat Boy you're right the sulfuric reaction is a concern and is something that is presently being closely studied and discussed in fact the research on this began before the talk about condensing oil boilers was a part of the equation. I don't know if you had a chance to speak with Bob Boltz at WetStock but he could really fill you in on what's going on with that better than I could.

The other thing that's needed (in my opinion) to have these systems operate (oil condensing boilers) is the correct type of oil burners being applied to them and how they perform under these conditions. I have had the privilege of seeing some of the burners that work well in theses conditions and this type of application. I believe you would be pleased with them also once you see them.

If you're going to be at the NAOHSM show in Hershey 2003 look me up and I'll point you in the direction of where you can see the burners I'm talking about. I know for a fact they will be on display.


Your friend in the industry,
Alan R. Mercurio

Oil Tech Talk

heatboy

Thanks, Alan.

Agreed, I'll be there. IF, we can clean the fuel up and IF burners are developed (blue flame technology) that burn clean enough, there is still the issue of trying to design a system that will lower water temperatures (105°) and force condensation. It just seems that the complexity of condensing will yield very little efficiency edge. I look forward to being proved wrong!

Warm Regards,

hb

"Expert in Silent Warmth"™

888-UB-COMFY

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kf_2

Condensing Oil

The two problems I see is obviously the high sulphur content, but also I have seen oil boilers now with combustion efficiencies approaching 89%+. Even with low sulphur oil, as you pointed out, we still have very low dewpoints with oil. How much will the extra cost be to achieve an extra maybe 2% efficiency?

The few ideas I have seen for condensing oil boilers all utilize seperate, replaceable secondary heat exchangers.

ANTICIPATION??

kf

chris smith

one more alan

http://www.mzboiler.com/

chris smith

paradise porter maine

Alan Muller

There's been a condensing furnace around for years--now made by Adams if still in production. Uses a Wayne burner. Has a bit of a reputation for sooting up and being hard to clean. Use of #1 oil is advised. Monitor also seems to need #1, although the issue is dodged in their literature. This added cost could offset the efficiency gains....?

am

JackFre

condensing oil equip

Yukon made a condensing oil furnace back in the 80's. It put them out of business. By the time they cratered the units were far better than what they started with but by then it was to late. Consumers Reports did a study on the condensing equipment (gas & oil). PH on gas equip was 3.2, #2 Oil was 2.9. Gas hydochloric, oil sulphuric. Condensing oil can certainly be done, but you have to be a "hand", a good hand, to deal with it. Very little margin for error. Cleaning a plugged up condensing oil appliance is a real thrill...and yes i am understating the case. Also, the comments posted about the acidity and corrosion are spot on. You put that stuff into anything but AL 29 4C, it is toast!

Alan Muller

condensing oil

Yes. I think Yukon became Dornback (sp?) which became Adams which may still be in production.

Alan Muller

Jack_23

oil condensing

Dornbeck was a separate company. I think the tooling and technology is still available for the Yukon. The Owner is still making his wood/oil combo units for sale. The condensing technology was originally developed by Wayne and sold to Yukon who brought the unit out with...surprise...a Blue Angel. They ran reliable efficincies of 95%., vent and intake were sch 40 PVC. Units were downfire with condensaton taking place in the lower HX (AL29-4C SS). Get some of that condensate on the mild steel furnace structure and Good night. By the by, if you take one gal of gas, LP or #2 and reduce the flue gaas to ambient temp you will recover about 1.1 gal of condensate. Typical treatment was to put an in-line pvc pipe filled with limestone chips to neutralize (reduce the ph closer to 7) the ph of the fluid. You can gain about 10% eff. over atmospheric equip. Obvious cost increase but typical savings in vent system cost. If we ever join the workd energy market it will pay big time!