Trane system upgrades - results

Steamhead

A standard vent (radiator or main) lets air out and closes on temperature. When the system cools down, the vent opens and air van re-ente rthe system.

A Vacuum vent will not re-open and let air into the system when cool. It will only re-open when there is air to be expelled again.

The problem with vacuum vents on oil or gas fired systems is the system often goes into vacuum before all the air is out. The air can then expand and block steam flow.

This is why I recommend the Gorton #2. It will vent quickly on an ounce or two of vapor, but not permit expanded air to block steam flow.

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Dave_23

Dan, Steamhead - Trane Upgrade Results

Dan, Steamhead,

I placed an ounce gauge and vaporstat on my trane system (modified for natural gas fired boiler). It turns out that the system operates/peaks at about 1.6 ounces/sq. in.

Interestingly, this is enough pressure to heat all radiators evenly and quickly.

However, the vaporstat is only capable of serving as a safety device. It doesn't have the differential adjustment range to be useful at such low pressures. (I have it set as follows: Main=4.0 oz, Diff=2.0 oz). Frankly, I'm not sure it's even worth interrupting the boiler's firing within a system that operates at 1.6 oz/sq. in.

Dan and Steam, do you still feel I should replace my three Hoffman #76's main vents with Gorton #2's?

What are your thoughts on vaporstat calibration given my system?

-Dave

Steamhead

You'll get better distribution

with the Gortons. The Hoffman #76 is a vacuum vent, which is not desirable when firing that system with oil or gas. If the system goes into vacuum before all the air is out, the remaining air will expand and possibly block incoming steam.

Vacuum vents were only effective when burning coal.

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Dave_23

Vacuum vents

Steamhead,
I don't understand the concept of a vacuum vent (such as a Hoffman #76). These vents clearly release air and some steam after the boiler has filled the mains with steam.

Will you please explain the difference between a vacuum vent and the Gorton #2?

Thanks, Dave

Dave_23

My Hoffman's

Thanks for the info.

One of my Hoffman #76 vents steam when hot. Does this imply that it has failed? It is located on one of the the main steam return branches.

Steamhead

Exactly

that #76 has given up the ghost. R.I.P. (Recycle it Please)

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Dave_23

Recycling

I'll be glad to recyle the #76. Where do I send it?

(Or are you just kidding; send it to the landfil?)

-Dave

Steamhead

Depends

on whether you have household recycling in your area. Yes, I couldn't resist doing something unusual with a familiar term.....

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Mad Dog

Finally got my hands on some Gorton #2s

thanks tO Mr Genesee....I never want to ose any other main vent they all really stink compared to the # 2 Md

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Mark Bagdon

vacuum vs regular vents

Mark Bagdon

vacuum vs regular vents

My system is an old trane system with regular vents. I goes down to about a 10 in vacuum when it cools down , but then when the vents cool off all the way, air comes back into the system. If I installed vacuum vents, and it held a vacuum all the time wouldn't the heat come back faster since the water would boil at a lower temperature?

Also, the system develops about 1 psi max with a regular pressuretrol. Would I be better off with a control that could regulate the pressure in the inch range?

Mark Bagdon

Steamhead

Vacuum vents

really only work well with coal firing. With oil or gas, the burner can shut down on thermostat before all the air is out. When the system then drops into vacuum, this air will expand and may block steam circulation.

The Gorton #2 vent has 4 times the capacity of the old Trane vent, so it will vent much more quickly. Since it is not a vacuum vent, you won't have trouble with expanded air blocking the steam flow.

Mark, does your system still have its Direct Return Trap (looks like an old metal milk jug)? If so, you can probably get away with just cranking the Pressuretrol all the way down. The Return Trap, if working properly, will see that the water can return to the boiler.

If the Return Trap is gone, you need to use a Vaporstat. Get the one that only goes up to 1 PSI. This will keep the boiler pressure low enough (8-10 ounces or so)that the water can return without help.



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Dave_23

Replace main vents with Gorton #2's

Everything working fine. No more steam venting from the mains (defective Hoffman #76). The #2's are quieter (mechanically and pneumatically) than the #76 ever were.

The system seems to operate about 0.2 oz lower now.

Life is good. Thanks to all who helped my with my system.

-Dave

Dave_23

Trane upgrade - Final results

After adding an ounce gauge, vaporstat and three Gorton #2 main vents. My results are as follows:

1. System now operates at 1 oz/sq. inch pressure, or less.

2. Gorton #2's lowered overall system pressure by about 0.6 oz. They were a good purchase.

3. Vaporstat probably wasn't required since the operating pressure is so low. Pressuretrol cranked down would suffice for safety purposes. the addition of a vaporstat to my system was an unnecessary expense.

4. System heats great on < or = 1 ounce/sq. in. pressure. Amazing!!!

-Dave

Steamhead

And it will run well

for another 80 years!

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Mark Bagdon

Return Trap and system Pressure

I still have the return trap, but suspect that it is not working. Can you hear them pump?? I do not have any problem with condensate returning coming back into the boiler - the level in the guage glass never changes much, even when the pressure is up over 1 psi. However the system volume is small compared to the size of the boiler. I am sure it is way oversized and the radiation is recessed fin tube convectors, not rads.

I did experiment with lower pressures. They burner cycled alot and I think my fuel consumption went up. I track it on a therms per degree day basis. My gut feeling is that I get lower fuel consumption with somewhat longer cycles - though I could be wrong.
By the way. Here is a great web site for northeast weather for alot of cities. It is updated daily. Not official data but very accurate and FREE.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/er/box/clstns.htm

Steamhead

What is the sound of one Return Trap returning?

The ones I've seen are fairly quiet. Remember, Vapor was the Cadillac of heating in its day and was expected to be quiet. It may be that the system pressure isn't high enough raise the returning water enough to trip the Trap. If the level never gets to near the top of the sight glass, this is probably the reason.

If the boiler cycles a lot on low pressures and the steam distributes poorly, you may have a venting problem.

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