Question for Bill Wright re. HE boilers

Boilerpro

I am one of the contractors diagnosing 3 HE proppane boilers loczted in a single installation for a church. The current problem I am trying to resolve (among many found) is that the flame does not carry over from burner to burner at the low step setting of the gas valve. Cleaning the rusty burners helped greatly to get carryover on the high step, but still only the first two burners and sometimes only one light on the low step. The situation often causes the boilers to lock out. I was told by the Chicago rep that this was a known problem with stainless steel burners in the last 3 years or so and the solution was to go back to the aluminized steel burners. I don't believe the HE was in production during this time. My wholesaler, a long time WM dealer and a sharp Hydronics expert, has never heard this and about 50% of the boilers he sells are propane. In addition, all burner replacements cross reference to the newer stainless models, there are no part no.'s for aluminized steel. Don't know what to think? Also what is the appropriate range for the pressure at the vacumn switches when the blowers are running? The blowers seem to be moving an awful lot of air and I wonder if the installing contractor may have modified the boilers in some way. The boilers are connected to a very large chimney with very,very strong draft. FYI SER nos. are 1943202, 1943201, 1802531. Thanks for your help.

P.S. What is the correct part no for an ignitor kit on these boilers when using a W.R. 50E47-170 module with separate ignitor and sensor.

Boilerpro

Bill Wright_2

Boiler Pro,

> I am one of the contractors diagnosing 3 HE

> proppane boilers loczted in a single installation

> for a church. The current problem I am trying to

> resolve (among many found) is that the flame does

> not carry over from burner to burner at the low

> step setting of the gas valve. Cleaning the

> rusty burners helped greatly to get carryover on

> the high step, but still only the first two

> burners and sometimes only one light on the low

> step. The situation often causes the boilers to

> lock out. I was told by the Chicago rep that

> this was a known problem with stainless steel

> burners in the last 3 years or so and the

> solution was to go back to the aluminized steel

> burners. I don't believe the HE was in

> production during this time. My wholesaler, a

> long time WM dealer and a sharp Hydronics expert,

> has never heard this and about 50% of the boilers

> he sells are propane. In addition, all burner

> replacements cross reference to the newer

> stainless models, there are no part no.'s for

> aluminized steel. Don't know what to think?

> Also what is the appropriate range for the

> pressure at the vacumn switches when the blowers

> are running? The blowers seem to be moving an

> awful lot of air and I wonder if the installing

> contractor may have modified the boilers in some

> way. The boilers are connected to a very large

> chimney with very,very strong draft. FYI SER

> nos. are 1943202, 1943201, 1802531. Thanks for

> your help.

>

> P.S. What is the correct part no

> for an ignitor kit on these boilers when using a

> W.R. 50E47-170 module with separate ignitor and

> sensor.

>

> Boilerpro

Bill Wright_2

Boiler Pro,

Answers to your questions:

1.) The Chicago Rep is correct -- the burners should be replaced, you can not really clean burners when using propane. When you wire-brush the burner, you are actually mechanically removing the metal -- which changes the flow path of the fuel (not to mention that if the outside is "rusty", then the inside probably is as well).

2.) You currently have Aluminized Steel burners (as evidenced by the rusting)and the replacement burners will also be Aluminized Steel (WM p/n 512-200-035). A few years back we went to a Stainless Steel burner, and then later went back to the Aluminized Steel -- but it sounds like not all of our literature has been updated.

3.) There is a Tech Services Bulletin @ our website for the vacuum switch pressure settings (http://www.weil-mclain.com/contractor/bulletinindex.htm ... SB0013).

4.) WM p/n 382-930-216 Kit for Converting from 201 to 201N.

Hope this helps -- if you need additional assistance, I recommend that you either call our Tech Svcs line (219-879-6561, ask for Steve Stultz or Tom Senter) or call our Chicago Office (708-562-6220, ask for either John Smart or Mike Dore).

Bill Wright
Manager, Radiant & Plumbing Systems
Weil-McLain

Bill Wright_2

I feel your pain...

I just re-read that Tech Svcs Bulletin (SB0013) -- I don't think it answers the question that you were asking ... SORRY! It points you back to the HE manual (which doesn't appear to available @ our website ... ouch.)

I'll continue to do a little digging, but your best bet is to call Steve Stultz (219-879-6561), he deals w/ questions like this every day of the week & has the lit at his fingertips.

Bill W.

Dave Yates (PAH)

bad air shortage

Bill,
We just replaced the burner tubes and both ignition controls inside the front jacket from a WM steamer. No roll out switch! We added one. Orioginal contractor installed the boiler without checking to see why the other (less than 10 year old boiler failed). Also installed it with the service end tight to the wall - D'oh. Had to get a special exemption from the PA boiler inspector, which required detailed drawings and an explanation as to why it had been installed this way. How the H should I know? Owner darned near lost this one after just two years! Seems the combustion air used to be drawn from the common walkway between row-house style buildings. The restaurant expanded to incorporate the second building & you guessed it - they closed in the walk way! Gasping for air, she sooted up & condensed onto the burner tubes. Owner said he'd noticed the lazy yellow flames rolling out the front, but thought it was a draft problem! Methinks it was a daft problem instead(G). We relocated the ignition modules to the side and installed a manual reset roll out switch to the inside front jacket. New air source located via a crawl space to the outdoors. I suppose the constant opening of doors for customers must have prevented a huge CO build up.
It's a crazy world!
Dave

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Bill Wright_2

Yikes !!

It is amazing what you all see in the field every day!

Unknown

Good save, Dave

The old catch 22 of remodeling. How does the builder learn these things? He had no idea that he was redesigning the make-up air for a heating system. I've seen this happen before in another form, the addition effects the heating system, unintentionally. I wonder what the solution is, and where the liability would have been, had it turned out differently.....

Noel

Boilerpro

Thanks Bill...

Been plugging along at this project for about 3 weeks now, Hope, to get the boilers all set to factory spec and then go from there. I think the whole township knows of the problems they have been experiencing with these boilers since they were put in about 10 years ago. About 2 to 3 sundays a year they have no heat. All three boilers go down together about once a week from what I've seen. Definitely need new system piping (no low temp protection, could use bigger gas lines, and the venting system is single wall galvanized into a tall, oversized masonry chimney. Just trying to get them some reliablity for now.. next spring plan to redo the installation.

Boilerpro

Floyd_2

Sometimes....

you get into a rpoject like that, that makes you feel
like "why me Lord???"

But, there is nothing like that satisfaction that comes from
a job well done.....when it is all working like it was
"supposed to"!!! Hang in there!!!

Chauncey

I assumr that you have checked

grounding, polarity, and isolation from other sources of 24v @ the T&T terminals. Isolation relays are needed if you are using the old Taco heat-motor zone valves. There is also a new service bulletin on the weil website concerning grounding.

Boilerpro

Working toward that

Had to correct gas pressures, both from the tank and manifold, find and replace incorrect parts. Electrical is next trip, along with blower pressures and put on correct parts for ignition, gas valves, and new burners. This is definitely a learning experience....this is the first HSI I've worked with. The boilers are signaled through the secondary contacts of Honeywell pump relays....However the transformer on one boiler provides power to this circuit and isolation relays for the other boilers. Puts out 24 V when everything is on so I don't think its causing problems....just poor installation. Also power is not very reliable....church secretary says the lights flicker on windy days. Thanks for the input!

Boilerpro