The bubble (ME)

Mark Eatherton1

As most of you know, this is my third winter with hydronic heat. It's a wonderful "old" system.

I originally designed the system for y2k potential. It is a one pipe forced system with the abitily to be operated as a one pipe gravity system in the event of a power failure. Fortunately, other than testing the system, I've never had to operate it in the gravity mode.

Every since I have fired the system up, I've had this persistent bubble of air working its way through the system. Bear in mind that I have one of those "super efficient micro bubble resorbers" on line. According to the leading manufacturer, their device is so efficient at removing air from the system that it can actually make trapped pockets of air disappear. BUNK.

I've NEVER had a problem using the standard old scoop type of seperator, at 1/10th the cost. Probably should have used one here, but thought I'd go "state of the art", hence the MBR.

In an effort to get rid of this troublesome bubble, I've raised the system pressure, lowered the water flow rate, decreased the pressure, increased the flow rate, added corrosion inhibitors, added oxygen scavenger and had an Indian chief do an anti air dance in my mechanical room. To no avail, the bubble still keeps slogging through the system. Until today that is.

As I sat here in my radiantly ceiling heated office, I heard the pump winding up in it's usual cavitational convulsive manner, and said to myself, "That's it, it's time time to do someting about "el bubbelo". For those uninitated in Mark Speak, that's a hydronic term for the air devil.

So, I dig WAAYYY back to my old solar heating days and remember an old timer telling me that he used to get the air out of closed loop solar systems by injecting a few ounces of liquid dish detergent into the system. What the hey, can't cost me more than a little time and the soap is already paid for.

So, I break out with my trusty hand powered chemical injection pump, drain about 1/2 gallon of system water into a bucket, throw in a few ounces of liquid dish detergent, mix well and re-inject it back into the closed loop.

Guess what. The system is virtually silent, like it's supposed to be.

Thanks to good ol' Len Rosek for the tip of the year, I'll be able to concentrate on more important things. Thanks Len!!

ME

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Gary Fereday

ME, I love it!

? what is the theory behind the soap and the bubble disappearence ? please and Thanks in advance
bigugh

sootmonkey

hey

im going to try that. i have an air pocket in my slant fin.

Mark Eatherton1

I think it has to do...

with surface tension. The soap is a surfactant. It destroys surface tension agents. Hence, the bubble breaks up into smaller pieces (foam) and moved to the air seperator where the bubbles aglomulate and are finally expelled.

Before I injected the soap, I shut the system circulator off, and watching the flow meter indicator, saw it drop like a rock. WHAM.

After the soap had been in the system for 12 hours, I shut the pump off and the weight SLOWLY fell to the bottom, indicating that the El Bubbelo, where ever it was residing, is completely gone.

We used to use that falling flow indicator on closed loop solar systems all the time to see wether we had all the air out of the loop or not. If the flow coasts to a stop, the air is all gone. If it falls like a rock, there is still air present in the system.

It's nice not being able to hear the fluid moving through the system.

ME

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Mark J Strawcutter

did you suspect

> As I sat here in my

> radiantly ceiling heated office, I heard the pump

> winding up in it's usual cavitational convulsive

> manner, and said to myself, "That's it, it's time

> time to do someting about "el bubbelo". For those

> uninitated in Mark Speak, that's a hydronic term

> for the air devil.

>


did you suspect that the air was settling at the pump inlet, or was there some other cause for the cavitation?

Mark

Wayco Wayne

Very cool

trick to add to my bag of tricks. And think about how clean the insides of your pipes will be. Thanks for sharing. WW

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Mark Eatherton1

I honestly don't know why...

the bubble has to go right through the MBR before it can get to the pump, and by rights should have been trapped and expelled before it got to the pump. It never did. It just kept working its way around the system, back to the pump, causing the pump to speed way up, and the flow to drop way down, then it'd finaly go through the pump and back through the system. Over and over and over and over.

Alas, NO MORE!!

I'm living with a virtually silent hydronic heating system.

ME


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